The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » The Cost of Hiring a Professional Entertainer (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2687 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
I enjoyed and understand the article, but I have to agree that you can’t sell yourself by putting others down.
In the end it looks unprofessional and it only makes the industry that you trying to sell look bad. Best to brag
on that ten year old trying to do birthday parties, while adding that he will be great one day.

Why should I hire a magician if the majority of them are so bad? Should I gamble and just trust the few that believe
they are the best? I would like to think that 'magic' itself was my best choice and I was getting the most experienced
in that industry for a fair price. It’s ok to be leader of the field but you can’t do it by digging up the field.

You do have to justify your price, but you do that by pointing to satisfied clients who paid it.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
55Hudson
View Profile
Special user
Minneapolis
981 Posts

Profile of 55Hudson
To read Brian's article you have to already have an interest in the topic. A corporate party planner is unlikely to take the time to click the link or ortherwise explore the topic. They have a budget. They make a decision on the entertainment they want and, if your are within the budget, you get hired. (I know I've simplified here).

The person hosting a Halloween party in their house, who last year had a tarot reader and thinks they might want a magician this year, would be interested in this type of article. The bride looking for entertainment for her wedding might be interested in this article.

Since a good bit of my business is in this space - the home parties and weddings - I think prospective clients would find the article useful and would react more positively to my pricing after reading this article.

But, if my calendar were full and I was turning away gigs, then perhaps I wouldn't want (or need) them to read Brian's article.

Hudson
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Apple justifies nothing. They let the product justify it. It explains itself. They tell you why they are great, not why someone else is bad. Rolex NEVER complains a Kohls watch is only $80.

As Lou (And I.) said you have probably lost the sale already if you are justifying why you are worth that money. To do it preemptive seems like a bad idea. Why put the idea in someones mind that might not think it?

But that is me being aggressive.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, TomBoleware wrote:

You do have to justify your price, but you do that by pointing to satisfied clients who paid it.

Tom


Wow. Succinct. And perfect.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
BrianMillerMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
2038 Posts

Profile of BrianMillerMagic
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, TomBoleware wrote:

You do have to justify your price, but you do that by pointing to satisfied clients who paid it.

Tom


Wow. Succinct. And perfect.


Yes. My website does that. And it does it very well (see www.brianmillermagic.com/corporate-event-entertainment for example), hence my high closing % when people call or email me. Danny, have you looked at the article since I adjusted it? There were substantial revisions I did today based on your feedback and others. The language is no longer "me vs them" as per your suggestion.

The article is not linked from anywhere except my blog, which is not sitting on the main navigation bar of my website. My 'blog' is used for SEO and social media purposes, primarily. It's not designed to be read by somebody who is already interested in me. It is designed for somebody who is interested in hiring a magician but does not know anything about the industry.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
Danny: First off, you've become more aggressive towards me lately, and after all these years I'm not sure why.



After this no I have not read a revision.

Again if they know nothing of the industry why bring up an objection before they do? If they are not thinking about why you cost so much prior to the article, you can bet they are after.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
BrianMillerMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
2038 Posts

Profile of BrianMillerMagic
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
Danny: First off, you've become more aggressive towards me lately, and after all these years I'm not sure why.



After this no I have not read a revision.

Again if they know nothing of the industry why bring up an objection before they do? If they are not thinking about why you cost so much prior to the article, you can bet they are after.


The "why you cost so much" issue needs to be put to rest. In the revision I made this morning, which you haven't read, I got rid of that language. You made your point yesterday, I agreed, thanked you, revised it, and moved forward.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2015, lou serrano wrote:
This is an excellent discussion, as I'm not immune to to having this conversation with some of my prospects. It very rarely goes well. If I have to have this discussion with a prospect, in most cases, I've already lost the sale.

Quote:
On Nov 21, 2015, Dannydoyle wrote:

Does any company that sells high end products or services ever justify the price? If you want to hit that high end market you have to be worth it completely independently of what others are doing. High end restaurants never explain "our food costs are higher, we pay servers more, so your bill is higher." Much less BEWARE of that restaurant that is less expensive!



Danny makes a great point here. In any situation where I've bid a high dollar amount for an event, I've never had to justify my price. In many cases I would have been higher priced than my competition, but there are numerous reasons why they might have gone with me. Maybe it was the perceived value that I offered, maybe they liked my marketing materials, maybe they liked the way I handled my correspondence, maybe I gave them the confidence that they were making the right decision, etc. I'm sure this has happened in reverse as well, where I lost a gig to another magician priced higher than me.

Brian, I understand what you're trying to do with your blog post, but I think you're missing the mark. I could be wrong, but I don't think any prospect will read your post and be educated about the process, and be convinced to hire you because they believe you deserve to be compensated more than your competition. I actually think having this blog post hurts more than it helps (unless you have an SEO strategy in place to help increase your rankings) because you're fighting a losing battle. Mercedes-Benz or BMW does't explain why it's higher priced than Hyundai or KIA. If you position yourself properly, you shouldn't have to explain why you're higher priced than the weekend warrior.

In any case, I actually agree with much of what you say in your post, and I appreciate the opportunity to have a discussion about this. As I said, I still have this conversation with prospects from time to time, and I'm still learning on how to best handle the situation.

This post reminded me of an animated video I did about 5 years ago. If you'd like a good laugh, check it out here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw6r91VreiU

I look forward to hearing other perspectives on this issue.

Lou Serrano


This is pretty much the crux of the matter. Lou absolutely nails it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Karen Climer
View Profile
Veteran user
Orlando, Florida
324 Posts

Profile of Karen Climer
I read the full article. This article completely misses the point because it focuses on everything that is NOT important to the client. If a client is hiring you to entertain at a wedding, the thing they care about the least is the magician (or the bartender or any other service person). What the client cares about is the guests. They care whether their guests are having a good time.

This article says the professional does this, and the professional does that. Let me, the expert, educate you, the minion, about what is important to me. If you are educated enough about how magicians price their acts, then you will then want to hire me to do your wedding.

What the client cares about is how the guest will be entertained during the cocktail hour. This article is all about the magician's perspective, but what client cares about the magician's perspective? They don't. They care about their guests. If you talk about the guests' perspective, you won't have to educate the client into buying (which is completely ineffective).
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9769 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
I agree with Karen. This whole perspective could have been presented as benefits to them rather from the magician's perspective. It's hard for performers to operate from the prospect's perspective. I see this in websites, promotional materials, and even when talking about or presenting their services.

While Karen is correct that they think about their guests, they also think about themselves, just as you do when making a purchasing decision. There is nothing wrong with this. It is our right and usually preference as a consumer.

The very same info Brian is trying to parlay could have been done as a helpful guide or tips to make the best decision for them, their guests and their event.

I do agree with Brian that like it or not we have to properly present and sell our services. Part of the selling process includes informing and educating the prospects. It is how we approach this and do so that makes all the difference. People don't like being "sold" or "educated" unless they're specifically seeking this and even then on only their terms.

I have liked this discussion and the perspectives offered here. Danny makes some great points. Here again is another example of where I think it's more beneficial to think from an entertainer's perspective rather than a magician's perspective. Someone aid it earlier, no on needs a magician. However, they need entertainment. Also some kids magicians mentality has also crept into the thinking here. This too can be quite limiting.

On a side note and perhaps it's own thread, who do so many magician's (not referring to Brian here) prefer to only see themselves and present themselves as magicians rather than entertainers?
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
If I was looking for entertainment and read this it comes off at best preachy, and at worst whiney and needy. It does not read as anything designed to help me but rather to make excuses for being needy.

I know the attempt is to try to stop objections to price. I get that. The way to do that unfortunately is with experience and a track record and with pepper marketing and sales.

I and many here have said this probably will hurt more than help. It certainly won't accomplish the goal. Buyers want to be. The path of least resistance is usually the one taken.

If this is such a major issue I would look to ways I could improve so that these things don't happen.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Karen Climer
View Profile
Veteran user
Orlando, Florida
324 Posts

Profile of Karen Climer
Dannydoyle,

I agree with you about sounding preachy, whiney, and needy. I find the best way to stop price objections is to just not deal with them. If someone tells me that my price is too high, I wish them good luck on their event and move along. If you need the event that badly, your price is too high. (remember, the market, not you, gets to determine if your price is fair.)

Your price should be set at a level that you are getting enough gigs (what's enough depends on your goals and needs). If you aren't getting the number of gigs you want at $500, maybe you should lower your price to $400. If you are getting more than you want at $500, it's time to up it to $600. If you spend a full page to justify why you are worth $500, you probably aren't worth $500. (Please don't quibble over the actual prices I used. They are numbers for example purposes only.)
BrianMillerMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
2038 Posts

Profile of BrianMillerMagic
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, Mindpro wrote:

I do agree with Brian that like it or not we have to properly present and sell our services. Part of the selling process includes informing and educating the prospects. It is how we approach this and do so that makes all the difference. People don't like being "sold" or "educated" unless they're specifically seeking this and even then on only their terms.


That's just the point - As I've repeatedly stated, this is not an article designed to make sales for me. My website already does that. It's not anywhere on my site except buried in the blog section (which is not out in the open). People will only find it if they are searching for this topic, which means they are looking for this kind of information.

In any regard, I have enjoyed the ensuing discussion. I find it all very interesting and informative.
BrianMillerMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
2038 Posts

Profile of BrianMillerMagic
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, Karen Climer wrote:
I agree with you about sounding preachy, whiney, and needy. I find the best way to stop price objections is to just not deal with them. If someone tells me that my price is too high, I wish them good luck on their event and move along. If you need the event that badly, your price is too high. (remember, the market, not you, gets to determine if your price is fair.)


Thank you for your feedback. I turn down many events, and still maintain a full schedule. One last time: this article is not intended to sell my specific clients. It is not intended to be read before contacting me. It is not something anybody would easily find on my website if they are a prospective buyer, nor something that industry pros in corporate or college markets would bother clicking on. The article will be found by those searching for the answer to the question, "Why don't entertainers list their prices?" It's a very common question. Don't believe me? Check the wedding forums. Consumers are used to knowing prices and are frustrated that entertainers and services often don't list them.

I've been to your website Karen. Please explain these sentences on your home page:

"Many entertainers try to tell you they entertain ages 3-103. Do you really believe that toddlers enjoy the same thing as senior citizens?"

Isn't this the very same "me vs them" language that Danny riled against?

"I’m not moonlighting as a birthday party clown."

So you're positioning yourself by addressing the weekend warrior/amateur right on your home page.
Karen Climer
View Profile
Veteran user
Orlando, Florida
324 Posts

Profile of Karen Climer
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote:

That's just the point - As I've repeatedly stated, this is not an article designed to make sales for me. My website already does that. It's not anywhere on my site except buried in the blog section (which is not out in the open). People will only find it if they are searching for this topic, which means they are looking for this kind of information.




I just went to you home page. Under the about section, it says news/blog. It's right there. I was not searching for the topic, but found this information quite readily.

There is nothing wrong with you having it out there. You may want it out there for some reason. I'm just pointing out that it is, in fact, out there for your clients to see.
BrianMillerMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
Manchester, CT
2038 Posts

Profile of BrianMillerMagic
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, Karen Climer wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote:

That's just the point - As I've repeatedly stated, this is not an article designed to make sales for me. My website already does that. It's not anywhere on my site except buried in the blog section (which is not out in the open). People will only find it if they are searching for this topic, which means they are looking for this kind of information.




I just went to you home page. Under the about section, it says news/blog. It's right there. I was not searching for the topic, but found this information quite readily.

There is nothing wrong with you having it out there. You may want it out there for some reason. I'm just pointing out that it is, in fact, out there for your clients to see.


I track my site stats with Google Analytics. The percentage of people who actually click that drop down "blog" are next to none. It's on my site so that Google indexes it and it shows up in search results, for SEO purposes. Appreciate you letting me know, though (genuinely - I know it's hard to convey sincerity via text).
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 23, 2015, Karen Climer wrote:
I agree with you about sounding preachy, whiney, and needy. I find the best way to stop price objections is to just not deal with them. If someone tells me that my price is too high, I wish them good luck on their event and move along. If you need the event that badly, your price is too high. (remember, the market, not you, gets to determine if your price is fair.)


Thank you for your feedback. I turn down many events, and still maintain a full schedule. One last time: this article is not intended to sell my specific clients. It is not intended to be read before contacting me. It is not something anybody would easily find on my website if they are a prospective buyer, nor something that industry pros in corporate or college markets would bother clicking on. The article will be found by those searching for the answer to the question, "Why don't entertainers list their prices?" It's a very common question. Don't believe me? Check the wedding forums. Consumers are used to knowing prices and are frustrated that entertainers and services often don't list them.

I've been to your website Karen. Please explain these sentences on your home page:

"Many entertainers try to tell you they entertain ages 3-103. Do you really believe that toddlers enjoy the same thing as senior citizens?"

Isn't this the very same "me vs them" language that Danny riled against?

"I’m not moonlighting as a birthday party clown."

So you're positioning yourself by addressing the weekend warrior/amateur right on your home page.


Now we get to typical Magic Café' behavior. Don't address what is brought up, but rather do opposition research and attack the messenger. How can it be wrong? YOU DID THIS!!!!

Brian you want to know why I have been "more aggressive"? Cool here it is. THIS is EXACTLY the thing that is aggravating about you. Now suddenly you are going to attack others. NOTHING Karen wrote deserved this sort of attack. But suddenly you are the worlds foremost authority so it is ok to do so. It has become insufferable.

The whole tone of the first article sums it up. The whole "I am a professional" thing now is getting tiresome. News flash a professional does NOT have to scream about being one. His behavior will show everyone. A professional CERTAINLY does not have to put down others to prove he is one. The tone of the first article, though you did modulate it was arrogant and attacking and I felt bad for those who it attacked. There was NO REASON. Just because you tone it down doesn't mean it isn't what you believe.

Weekend guys have JUST AS MUCH right to charge what they want for jobs as do you and I. If they get a job from you because of price, then it is YOUR FAULT not theirs. There is no reason to attack them for having day jobs, or put them down because they have chosen a profession that is better suited to feed their families. It is uncalled for. I don't care how much perfume you put on it, you still were condescending. You have been going down this road ever since you started to experience small success. It is a bad road to go down.

Then when you just start attacking Karen instead of dealing with what she said it really showed just how far around the bend you have gone.

And just as an aside, for a guy who "turns down many events and still maintains a full schedule" it seems like this particular subject is a strange thing to blog about. You convert almost everyone you talk to also. Why break all the rock over something that means almost nothing to your bottom line? Certainly there are better things to worry about no?

But that is me being aggressive. And by the way before you ask, the reason I said it in public was you made the statement in public and not a PM.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9769 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
50 Shades of Benji!
Karen Climer
View Profile
Veteran user
Orlando, Florida
324 Posts

Profile of Karen Climer
Brian, I am not going to defend the language on my website. I did not post my website copy on this forum and ask for your feedback. You posted your website copy up here and asked for our feedback. Café members, including me, offered their feedback. Isn't that what you wanted?

If you (or anyone in the universe, for that matter) don't like my website, you can choose not to hire me. I will waste no time justifying my verbiage.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20040 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Bravo Karen.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » The Cost of Hiring a Professional Entertainer (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL