Hello, everyone.
I've recently got myself a set of phoenix cups. After I messed with them and looked into them more here, I realized they don't take a tennis ball very well. Not to be discouraged, I bought several pet store toys and practice, multi-colored tennis balls. After loading the tennis balls, I noticed that one gets stuck. I messed around and found that if I tap the rim on the table as I table it, the ball usually comes out.
After inspecting the cups closely, I noticed one is much taller. The other two are similar, but the balls (either/or) get stuck in one short ones. It seems they are all slightly different sizes, with one being much smaller. (As far as load tolerance goes).
So now I'm wondering if there is anything I can do to increase the size of the cup. Perhaps sand above the shoulder bead? I think it would only take a bit, but alas, ruining the set would not be worth it when I can find lemons that look great on their side anyways.
If it could/has been done tho, I would appreciate any advice.

Charles,

Keep looking for some tennis balls to fit, they are out there. If you search deep enough here at the Café there are several threads about tennis balls and the Phoenix Cups. I found some really cheap made tennis balls from China that work well.

The TF Phoenix Cups always had an arts and crafts look to me... I really like them. I have not come across where the Cups are a different size from one another. don't try to keep them shiny, whatever the copper mix is, they really form a patina quickly... that's another thing I like about them.

Good luck with your Cups,
Bruce

I have some small baseballs available if you're interested.
They look great and fit those cups well as final loads.

The bigger balls are harder to palm/load. Size does not matter as much as change/surprise.

...and sometimes, depending upon your presentation, 3 (4?) DIFFERENT final load objects make for a spectacular finale'.

Julie

The Tom Frank Phoenix cups were, I believe, made in China.

I have not come across where the Cups are a different size from one another. don't try to keep them shiny, whatever the copper mix is, they really form a patina quickly... that's another thing I like about them.

Good luck with your Cups,
Bruce [/quote]
The old look is what made me like them at first.and a routine I saw a kid do on YouTube.
I'll try to post a pick, it's quite a difference.
What do you mean by arts and crafts?

I'll use seasonal fruit, I'd just like the third ball to release smooth. It really is the surprise that matters tho.

Chaarles,

What I mean by arts and crafts is that the TF Phoenix Cups do no look as perscise in the way they are spun as say a set of RNT2 or Sherwood Cups. Gary Animal Cups also strike me the same way... And by no means am I saying they are bad Cups, I love my sets.

Take care,
Bruce

I seem to remember that the Phoenix Cups (yes, he had them made in China) were sold in varying degrees of quality.

By this I mean the highest quality (matching cups/good condition) were sold with the Certificate of Authenticity and the attractive wooden box. After this he sold some not quite as good, still with the box, but no letter of authenticity. This was followed by pretty good sets sold without the box or the Letter.

Finally, the left-overs were bargain basement priced and offered on e-bay. Prices on all this assortment of sets ranged from $200.00 (I THINK that was the high) to as low as $35.00 for a 3 cup set.

Obviously, this variance in quality & price is why you need to be cautious when buying Phoenix Cups on the secondary market without the opportunity to inspect them.

Tom may chime in to clarify the above...

Julie

This set didn't come with the COA. When I asked about this, the seller told me it had one, but had lost it over the years. This seemed reasonable, and when coupled with me REALLY wanting this set, I may have been sold a second that was misrepresented. Or maybe not.
It does seem possible tho. Thank you for your post, Julie.

I just remembered that the higher quality sets in the wooden box also included balls and a metal wand.

I don't remember whether the balls and/or wand was included with some of the other level sets.

Julie

Julie, are you sure they came with a metal wand? My set is like the one pictured here:

http://www.industrialstrengthmagic.com/site/PCB.htm

And it comes with an ironwood wand, which takes a beating and suitably beats the cups! Never saw a set with a metal wand, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Hi W.O.Z.

I'm too lazy to dig out the box and look, but you are most likely correct. I never used the ironwood (that's where my pee-wee brain came up with "metal") wand that came with the set because it didn't look like a wand (to me) and I didn't do a rough presentation that involved banging on the cups.

One more point: at some point in time someone at a convention sold an empty box like the one Tom supplied with the original sets. I have TWO boxes; the one that came with the set and an empty one (without the Certificate).

Julie

Woz, Julie,
the set originally shipped with an Ironwood wand. Ironwood is not a very east to find. Most countries and states
have banned the harvest of ironwood.

Jake Sr.

Thanks, Jake. Idle curiosity, why has the harvesting of ironwood been banned?

Julie

Probably for the same reason that Brazilian rosewood has been banned. Overharvesting to make furniture and musical instruments has reduced Brazilian rosewood to the point where governments become concerned. Don't even think about carrying a musical instrument made out of Brazilian rosewood onto an airliner unless you have the paperwork proving you acquired it legally.

Yikes.
The collector in me likes and hates this. Rarity verses attainability...it's always something.

Sorry to derail the conversation a bit but I have a question regarding these cups I have been wanting answered and I'm hoping someone here would know. These Phoenix cups seem to be awfully close to the Charlie Miller cups I use. Are they the same cups?

The Tom Frank cups are the same in the sense that they are similarly designed. They are the 3rd generation of the Ross Bertram cups, which came first. The Charlie Miller cups were sold by Magic Inc. in the 1970s and were the 2nd generation. The 4th incarnation of this cup is the Phoenix 2 cup currently sold by Donnie at RNT2. Donnie tweaked the design a bit so that this cup will work better with a one inch ball.