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Profile of Andrew

This has happened to me as well.
Several times I have posted fliers and they have vanished. No matter how well I have secured them to a particular board (even using a heavy clear packing tape) they have been ripped down.
I have resolved not to post my fliers at this store since they are obviously being removed by someone who disagrees with my entertainment and ministry. I only wish I knew who was responsible in order to clarify the purpose of my illusions.
Such is life!

Professional Provider of Wonderment!
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Profile of MagikMike
Sorry to hear about all this.

"What's your father's occupation?"

"He's a magician"

"What's his favorite trick?"

"Sawing people in half."

"Gosh! Any brothers or sisters?"

"One half brother, and two half sisters"
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Profile of onebark

I also believe in making things happen for a reason. Had this happened to me, I'd have been on the phone with every newspaper, TV station, and other media outlet I could find. I'd find a way to turn it into a positive situation so that I could reach even more people!

Jon, your perspective is right on target, however, going to the media would be the last option. The court of public opinion (sespecially the local media) is not the best place to try this case...the governing body of the offending pastor's church and/or other peers pulled together to mediate is a step that should be taken first.

I wonder, that since the pastor is silent, whether he has had a change of heart, or is embarrassed? I would love to hear an update on this situation.

Bill Hallahan
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Profile of Bill Hallahan
In the article Mr Kole - I will gladly accept your challenge! (referenced in Terry Holley’s post) the Rev. Dr. Donald K. Stewart references the following quotation, but this quotation is very different in the King James version of the Bible that I have.

Revelation 9: 20-21; "--they did not stop worshipping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts

In the King James version of the Bible there is no mention of “magic arts” in any verse anywhere near Revelation 9: 20-21. I also checked the reference to Revelations 21: 8 that Rev. Steware mentioned and again there was no mention of “magic arts.”

Does anyone know what translation of the Bible contains this?
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch"
Terry Holley
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Profile of Terry Holley

"Magic arts" is found in the New International Version.

By the way, it has been over a year since Donald Stewart's acceptance of Andre Kole's challenge, and he still has not come forward with anyone who has the power that he claims exists.

It is also interesting to note that Mr. Stewart has never replied to my 3 or 4 e-mails that I sent him over the past year asking if he had found anyone with the power yet!

Simply another case of making claims with nothing to back them up.

Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
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Profile of rossmacrae
A church calls a pastor to speak and to guide, but a responsible pastor needs to use a great deal of maturity and judgment before he opens his mouth.

This pastor has "started a ball rolling" that may be very hard to stop.

Why is it that some "religious authorities" feel compelled to find enemies everywhere - everything from Goth-flavored parlor magic to a stuck traffic light is Satan's evil hand at work?

Twitch, you can't prove a negative - that's the deadly fallacy underlying this sort of hysterical accusation. You can never prove that you're NOT in league with Satan ("SURE he's not ... that's exactly what Satan would like you to believe!")

The pastor's a wingnut and the fellow parishioners you mentioned are the same - there are plenty of churches where God's word is preached with more mature understanding - my advice to you is to go where you are treated in a truly Christian fashion and shake the dust of that sad church off your feet without a second thought.
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Profile of weepinwil
On 2004-03-09 18:32, Terry Holley wrote:
You all may be interested in these articles as they relate to the controversy that fueled this post:

If you take the time to do some searching through that web site, you'll also come across letters to the editor that side with the Reverend.

It is my understanding that the Reverend mentioned in these articles has not provided any proof to his claims as of last week.


Most of the misunderstanding arises from the ignorance of the meaning of magic in the Bible. In reality, the magi is never discredited for the magic he or she does but it is their intention that is condemned such as when Simon he Sorceror wanted to be able to give the Holy Spirit for financal gain.

As long as we have religion, there will be those who try to gain by condemning what they do not know about. Sounds like the Rev. in the article is playing the part of Simon.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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Profile of Twitch
Well, it's been awhile since I've posted on this subject or well even really posted on the Café for that matter since all this happened. While I didn't stop doing magic during this time I did take this a chance to look back and revaluate certain aspects of what we a as Christian magicians have going for us and against us. Since this incident I've grown quite a bit in my walk with God and as I looked back on this post and was noticed while I asked for advice, I didn’t really want to hear the truth from the other members here and really wanted to thank all of you for the advice that was given. As for the update on this everything seems to be working out fine. The pastor in question and I have talked this thru and we now meet for lunch once a month. I still maintain my goth look and my style of magic hasn't changed much either but it has matured greatly in the last half a year. So in closing, thanks for the advice again and I look forward to more conversations here with you all.

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Profile of Macbeth
Good to hear your still growing Twitch.
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Profile of tboehnlein
Okay so would you care to share a bit more on the spike through hand?
Allan Olive
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Profile of Allan Olive
It seems from your post that you have a good relationship with your pastor. You might ask that he set up a meeting with the three of you. Whatever you do, don't "fight back". That would just allow the minister who misunderstands you to validate his feelings about you. Let your ministry and your character be your primary concern. With the help of your pastor, explain your ministry to him. Whether he receives it well or not is between him and the Lord.

Above all else: Guard your heart and walk in love towards him!


Just read your update and was glad to hear that everything is working out fine with you. It's nice to see that the two of you meet for lunch once a week. Is magic "off limits" during these lunches?
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