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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
About 30 years ago Amazing Randi told me that most people -in the US- need to do perform full view escapes.
Aside from Harley (love ya man) being intricately wrapped in 1/4 mile of Seran Wrap of 7 rolls (he is is virtually obscured) it's should still be considered a full view escape. What exactly do you do where the audience calls out "take the blanket off"?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
"Sure, coming right up!" and then make the escape. That or ignore them.
I think the issue is not full view or not full view. I think the issue is... Are you entertaining the audience to the point that they don't care if they can see or not. In the classic water tank escape, the curtain is raised two or three ties showing the performer is various stages of escape. The audience feels that the performer doesn't want to reveal secrets, but is willing to show how things are going. I have never heard anyone call out at that. I think the mailbag escape is similar, though for a different reason. It is the simplicity of the impossible escape. No fancy equipment, no stuff that people don't understand, just a bag and a bar with locks. The audience accepts the escape for what it is. In my handcuff/bag/cage escape, I tell the audience that I will be in their view at all time. Total bull. I am in the bag where they cannot see me nor see the handcuffs. The only honestly full view aspect of that escape is working the lock on the cage, and that shows them nothing. No one complains about what they did not see.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Why tell them anything, when you end up demonstrating anyway? Part of making any performance piece work, is knowing how to set it up. If you tell them ahead of time, what you're going to do, then why bother doing it? Part of the problem (in this) is that most magi and EAs learned bad performance habit, and their patter is based in it.
With something death-defying, it's even more important not to give it away. Those situations require the audience to view, with a question mark. And Cliff, we disagree. If you have to ignore the audience, you have no business being onstage. They have paid to be there. You owe them your attention. And yes, one of the nice things about my SW escape is that it's full-view, even though it's not.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
C'mon Harley. You know I don't mean ignore the audience, I meant ignore the comment.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
I have found that full view is the only way so have dropped the rest. A bonus to this is that cover takes props so there is less to carry plus if they can't see you then chances are you can't see them = could be problems. As not all speckies are house trained.
Then there is the value for money attitude. To see a performer suffer for his art (Struggle visual plus blood and sweat etc etc ) to most would be superior. Up against a moving sheet and a popping out of the ea as a climax ,,,,,,, know which I would rather see. Guess who even uses fake blood for effect ?????? Hell they go mad when I eventually get out,,,,and if they don't, I'm going to want to know why. |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Yes. And when you go out of sight, you invite the specs to believe that it's all a trick.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 10, 2016, Harley Newman wrote: Years ago, when I was a teenager, I was locked in cuffs and the curtain brought up. One of the magic club members got everyone else to leave the room. When the curtain came down, 99 seconds later, the audience was gone. I did the vanishing audience trick.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Rook Special user I went to the Magic Cafe and all I got were these lousy 834 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 10, 2016, jay leslie wrote: The holy grail of magic! Full view is one of my criteria for developing a new escape. That being said, one escape may be a cover for another. My threefold death escape, for example, uses a bodybag as a cover for a mailbag. I must confess that the use of fake blood onstage never occurred to me. I tip my hat.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.
-Roald Dahl |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Any cover (ie bag) is not full view. turning you back to cover a move is not full view.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Technically true but, from the perspective of the average audience member, not a sticking point.
Since a performing escape artist is a showman, total honesty is not always the most effective policy. As Houdini asserted, it's not what you actually DO that counts, but what the audience THINKS you do.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
The average audience member doesn't care at all, so it's never been a sticking point.
The assumption that an escape artist is a showman is a bit of a fallacy. I have seen more people do escapes that have no talent and are doing escapes because there is no skill required to give a demonstration of an escape than those who can engage with an audience.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
It's not just EAs. The same is true of most of the jugglers, magicians, and clowns I've seen. They might make money performing, but they have close to zero showmanship.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
It's not just EA's but that is the subject of this forum.
If it wasn't for magicians or EA's mixing up an escape with a magical conclusion, then EA's might be seen differently. packing crate escapes which end with the performer appearing some where else is both a covered (non full view) escape and invites the specs to believe that it's all a trick.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
Or doing one escape after another, for the whole show. When you've done the first, the audience knows everything else that will happen. It's like watching a sword swallower with a rack of a dozen swords. When the first one is up to his mouth, you know the rest of the act.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 11, 2016, Harley Newman wrote: depends on the escapes, types, and performer.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
OK.
I've seen hundreds of people perform, who call themselves EAs. Of the ones who do a full show of escapes, I have not yet seen one that I'd go see again. I guess it might happen. Maybe.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
You said in your first reply 'If you tell them ahead of time, what you're going to do, then why bother doing it? "
the clue to what you are going to see in the beginning, is in the self proclaimed title "Escape artist" The real question is who would 'you' pay money to see??
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Yup!
Twenty years ago, I filled in for Dick Xavier, when he canceled his tour at the last minute. He did 45 minutes. (The 100 foot rope, a strait jacket, and the "Australian Crib".) I did a brief talk on Houdini. Then a Hamburg 8 in full view, a comedy in and out with modern swing thru thumb cuffs, and a strait jacket. It was a 15 minute segment of my basic magic program. It played well. To be honest, I got a lot more credit than I deserved! Houdini could sit in his cabinet, reading "Billboard", and impress the folks. That, IMO, wouldn't play today!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
I guess I should have written, "SHOULD be a showman."
Good and bad actors are a given.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Okay, where are we so far?
1. Audiences prefer to see everything that happens (or to believe they see everything). 2. "Full View" and "Showman" are both open to semantic interpretation. 3. Concealed 'escapes' by magicians are a prime factor in hampering the public appeal of escape acts. 4. A show composed entirely of escapes may or may not be entertaining. Any other observations, or is it time to discuss remediation? Is remediation even on the table?
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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