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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » The "Panacea Stack" - A new algorithmic memorized deck system (possibly...) (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

DrewBstoss
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**I've also posted this over in "Penny" but thought this would be an appropriate place as well**

IF YOU ONLY HAVE A MINUTE, READ THIS:

Several months ago I developed an algorithmic stack. It allows you to know the position of any card (and vice versa) AS WELL AS acting as a cyclical stack. I feel that it has some great things to offer those who have struggled learning other systems. Before sharing it more widely with the community I'd really love to get some feedback from members of the forum who are knowledgeable in stacks and mem-decks. I respect our craft/art enough not to merely rehash other's work so if this system already exists I'll get the pleasure of knowing that I'm in good company through independent invention.

If you're interested, please shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send over the write-up. All I ask is that you give me your opinion on the system and identify whether or not it's something that you've seen before.

IF YOU HAVE A FEW MINUTES, HERE'S THE FULL STORY:

The "Panacea Stack" is probably best described has a hybrid of Coffrin's "Si Stebbins", Osterlind's "BCS", and Richardson's "Lazy Magician's Memorized Deck". It allows you to identify the position of any card, as well as the card at any position, in the deck. Furthermore it functions as a cyclical stack. In it's basic form it easily passes as a thoroughly shuffled deck during casual inspection - but you can "enhance" the stack with a slight adjustment and it could surpass the closest scrutiny.

**ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING FEATURES OF THE STACK:The stack is constructed upon a set of "keys". As long as you can effective manage these "keys" you can place them in ANY sequence that you want. As strange as it sounds, this means that there over 6.2 BILLION permutations to the basic "Panacea Stack" that require only one slight mental adjustment. The system is literally a malleable chameleon that you can make your own.**

I created this system after my friend Atlas Brookings shared with me his (and Raven Gairloch's) take on an algorithmic stack - "The Solution".

Let me go on the record now as stating that "The Solution" is a BRILLIANT creation. I can absolutely appreciate the thinking that went into it - but for me, it just didn't "click". I loved the idea of a rule-based system being applied to a memorized deck but challenged myself to come up with something that was more "me".

Now I'll say upfront that while I (emphasis on "I") believe the "Panacea Stack" is "the easiest, fastest, most efficient memorized deck ever" (apologize for stealing your ad copy Atlas and Raven!) YOU MIGHT COMPLETELY DISAGREE - AND THAT'S OKAY!

For some, brute memorization fits that bill. For others, "The Solution" (or other systems) will meet their needs. The point of all this is to find WHATEVER allows you to entertain and mystify your audiences with the wonderful world of memorized deck work.

As I mentioned at the top of this post, before sharing this stack more broadly with the community I'd like to make sure that I'm not simply rehashing someone else's work. I've never seen anything exactly like it before but I'm also not the most knowledgeable guy in the room about such things. I work strictly as a mentalist but I have an extensive background in card technique (not so much though with stacks). This doesn't boast the in-built effects inherent in other mem-decks like Aronson's or Tamariz' but for the card plots I'd use - it works like a charm!

IF YOU'RE INTERESTED AND FEEL QUALIFIED TO BE ABLE TO LET ME KNOW IF THIS EXISTS ELSEWHERE shoot me a PM with your email and I'll send over the write up.

THE ELEPHANT(S) IN THE ROOM: First off, I'm in NO way trying to steal the thunder from "The Solution" (or any other system for that matter). My only motivation for possibly sharing this stack is to offer yet another alternative to those trying to get over the proverbial "hump" related to mem-decks. This system is my "panacea" but it may not be yours.

Secondly, I know AND APPRECIATE that many of you have opposing opinions concerning the use of algorithmic stacks. The thread on "The Solution" has quite eloquently documented many of those perspectives. In hopes of building bridges, allow me to share the final piece of advice that I offer in the write up on the "Panacea Stack":

"MY FINAL PIECE OF ADVICE:

JUST COMMIT THE STACK TO MEMORY.

Yep - after spending nearly nine pages explaining the rules of this stack I'm closing this document by advising you to simply put in the work to memorize it.

Why?

Because once the stack is in your memory you'll magically "JUST KNOW" which card is at a given position and vice versa. You won't have to jump through any mental hoops (as simple as they are) in order to ascertain the needed information.

I hope that you use this stack AS A GATEWAY into memorized deck work - it wasn't meant to be a destination. I always knew that brute memory was the way to go but felt a bit overwhelmed by the prospect. The "Panacea Stack" has allowed me to warm up to the idea (and work) necessary to get there.

With this system you can always revert back to the rules if your memory falters in the heat of performance (or simply to double-check yourself) but if you really want to move into advanced memorized deck techniques and effects you'll want to know the stack COLD.

Life's like that - the longest roads often provide the best scenery!"

Best,

Drew
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DrewBstoss
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For those interested, I've attached a picture of the stack so you can get a feel for how it looks.

Full disclosure: this is an "enhanced" permutation (one of the 6.2 billion!). The basic system would be sufficient for normal viewing, but I've decided to go with an "enhanced" version for prolonged viewing here Smile

Best,

Drew

Click here to view attached image.
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
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wilko7
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Hi Drew.
I've sent you a pm. I'd be happy to take a look.
Regards
Jay
DrewBstoss
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Hi Jay!

I just sent that over.

TO EVERYONE WHO HAS TAKEN A LOOK AT THIS: I really appreciate your time and feedback- it's been extremely helpful!

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
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hcs
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The name of the stack is very well and advisedly chosen :=).

DrewBstoss states: "The "Panacea Stack" is probably best described has a hybrid of Coffrin's "Si Stebbins", Osterlind's "BCS", and Richardson's "Lazy Magician's Memorized Deck". It allows you to identify the position of any card, as well as the card at any position, in the deck. Furthermore it functions as a cyclical stack. In it's basic form it easily passes as a thoroughly shuffled deck during casual inspection - but you can "enhance" the stack with a slight adjustment and it could surpass the closest scrutiny."
That's absolutely correct!

I would additionally mention Andrew Mayne's: „The Zero Memorization Memorized Deck“, 2004, p.7

The Panacea stack in its naked form isn’t a memorized deck - it is an algorithmic stack. IMHO this stack has nothing to do with „The Solution“. But both stacks are able to act AS A GATEWAY into memorized deck work. (Memdeck - you just KNOW a second secret identity for each card used to arrange a deck)

The Panacea stack gives you a framework for developing your own type of a non-tetrasdistic stack.
The Panacea stack is a new approach for a math based stack- IMHO an uncut diamond for stack aficionados.
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sychou
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I received the PDF file from author.
I am impressed with the stack.
Advantage:easy to learn the stack and Cyclical.
Disadvantage:I haven't found any particular built in feature in the stack.
Some math based stack got built in pattern to do particular trick such as Si Stebbin or Mirroring Stack.
I think the stack is like a hybrid of Richard's BCS and 6-hours Joyal Stack,easy to learn,but no particular built in feature.
The author also recommend memorize the stack also,but I would stick to my own memorized deck and Si Stebbin for some particular trick.
If you haven't learn a memorized deck,I think this is worth a look.
Thanks again for DrewBstoss kindly sharing,he must have put in so much work to build a new algorithmic deck,
anyone who ever tried to build one themself would know how difficult it is to come up with a algorithmic deck which is also cyclical.
Congrats my friend.
Ross W
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Drew kindly sent me the PDF for his system: The Panacea Stack. Thanks Drew!

It is very clever.

But don't run away with the idea that this is easy. It is easier, certainly, than a memorised deck. It is, however, going to take work. The suits, especially, are tricky to master. I have been looking at it on and off for a couple of days now, and I'm still not sure that I have properly understood the system for calculating the suit. I don't THINK this is because of the explanation: Drew's writing seems clear enough.

I'm on holiday next week, so will take it with me.
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Claudio
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I have had time to read through the well-written instructions of The Panacea Stack.

First of all I admire the effort and ingenuity required to come up with such a tool. Well done Drew.

What is the Panacea Stack? It’s a set of (flexible) rules that allow you to build a fully fledged 52 card stack. It’s easy enough to determine a card position in the stack from the card value and possible to obtain the card value from its stack position, though the latter is more awkward to achieve as it requires more intellectual effort.

A previous poster stated that there’s no built-in feature in the stack. It’s not correct. As with Si Stebbins you can deal yourself an excellent poker hand or a grand slam at bridge.

How useful is it?

It all depends on your aim. If you wish to use a stack without having to memorize it and you are fast at basic mental math, then it’s a good tool to use, but many of the best memorized deck effects won’t be possible.

If you want to learn a memorized deck which is different from most and want a backup in case you forget the value or position of a card then it’s an excellent tool.
DrewBstoss
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To hcs, sychou, Ross W and Claudio - thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts!

I should probably take a moment to clarify something - I have developed TWO stacks.

Since developing my newest system I've decided to adjust the names I've given them to better fit each stack. (I figure if anyone can, it's me!)

From now on I'm calling the "Panacea Stack" (that began this thread) the "BASE STACK" (anyone who has read it will clearly see why) - and I'm calling my NEWEST system the "PANACEA STACK". (Confusing I know!)

The reason is that when I created the "Base Stack" I thought that was the best that I could do (and therefore my "panacea" to stack work). THEN I created the "Panacea Stack" (originally called something else...haha!) and realized that IT WAS TRULY MY BEST EFFORT. I'm REALLY proud of both stacks but feel that the "Panacea Stack" (the new one) is a thing beauty!

To further clarify some of the thoughts shared above it's helpful to know that hcs, sychou, and Claudio are all speaking about the "BASE STACK".

Ross W (I believe) is referring to the "PANACEA STACK" (my newest development).

The confusion is completely my fault for cannibalizing my own title and sharing two stacks at the same time! Apologies!

If you'd like a bit for information I've provided the COMPLETE backstory here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

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IMAGINACIAN
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Hi Drew,

Is this available only from you or also from others like Penguin etc ?
There is no better freedom than choice and no better choice than freedom.
DrewBstoss
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Hi Imaginacian!

It's currently available from me and lybrary.com. It's loaded up on Penguin but hasn't gone live yet - not sure when it will as there seems to be a bit of delay.

If you purchase direct through me I can honor the 100% refund gaurantee if the systems don't feel like a good fit. The eBook containing BOTH stacks is titled "Requiem - Two Innovative Approaches the 'Memorized' Deck" and is $18. If you'd like to pick it up from me through PayPal send the funds to mindofandrews@gmail.com.

I'd recommend looking at the thread in "Latest and Greatest" (through the link given above) because it provides more information and several more reviews.

Thanks so much for the interest!

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
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WooverM
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Hey everyone,

Drew sent me his Base Stack a while ago but I didn't take my time to study it through for a number of reasons, but when I realized there is an intuitive stack I jumped right on it and purchased it myself from him for the full price.

I've used the Karma deck for a while and was looking for a bit more deceptive stack that is just as intuitive, Drew's wasn't as intuitive for me. Not at first glance at least, he was going to offer me a refund but then something hit me, an "AHA!" moment of sorts, let me tell you about it:

None of the Suit Order Systems seemed to fit my taste so I went back to the drawing board and tried to understand what I don't understand with Drew's stack, I figured that there must be something that hasn't clicked since I could recognize his brilliance with the order of the values through the deck. Trying to simplify it myself even further and even take away deceptiveness just for the sake of grasping it, which resulted in a happy accident of a way to remember the first SOS(The Suit Matrix) in the original deceptive order but NOT as a matrix and much more naturally and intuitively for me, I hope Drew will add my thinking to the next revision of the PDF and share it with you guys, if you must have it right now(please do check the date) you may PM me with a proof of purchase and I'll be glad to share it with you.

In essence, this is the best fastest and easiest full deck stack I've learned so far. it is much much easier and faster than the easiest full stack I learned (the Karma Deck) while still being more deceptive than any tetradistic stack(repeating bank of 13 cards value with different suits), while in one way it can also be converted to such a stack! Cannot recommend it enough, INSTANT buy.
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DrewBstoss
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With the encouragement of WooverM's feedback I've just completed a new supplement (21 pages in length) that's packed FULL of even more information, tips, and alternative handlings to make sure that you get the most out of these systems.

This should be updated on Lybrary.com soon and Penguin has informed me that "Requiem" will go live sometime in the coming week.

I'll email everyone that's purchased this directly from me within the next 24 hours with the expanded 2nd Edition.

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
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Chris
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It is updated on Lybrary.com. Customers can download the new PDF from their digital shelf.
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
DrewBstoss
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Just have to say that Chris has been EXCELLENT to work with - I really appreciate him!

I've now sent out the 2nd Edition to all who have purchased direct from me. It was sent to the email linked to your PayPal account so if you haven't received it please PM me with your preferred email.

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
Ceierry
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I just can't memorize the stack xD I don' understand the system, Drew are you still working with this stack?
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holdingoutflat
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The possibilities of this sound absolutely incredible.
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