Here's that project that I mentioned in my previous post.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/artsbeat......20160309

Now you're talking.
A magic mansion in NYC.

If it's like Queen of the Night or The Box, expect to pay upwards of $250 per person.

I think worth it if it's an unforgettable experience.

If it is to survive, then being worth the price is a given. This will make it unlike the Castle in that it will not be somewhere that people can go to to hang out.

There's considerable difference between a theater that has magic shows and a private club that has--in addition to magic shows--its own building, a library of books and videos, lectures, etc. There have been magic theaters and shows on the East Coast before--like The Brook Farm Inn of Magic in Maryland and Le Grand David and His Spectacular Magic Company in Boston--not to mention Broadway magic shows. In Virginia Beach there was briefly Merlin's Magical Tavern. IIRC, Wayne Allan and Sandy had a show in Annapolis, Maryland. NYC also had "Mostly Magic" from 1980 to 1993.

And Slappy is right. The Castle had the Larsen family behind it--plus big name draws like Larry Jennings, Jay Ose, Dai Vernon... Other than Denny Haney, I don't know that the East Coast has that kind of name draw people.

Having said all that--who would have thought that an East Coast version of Disneyland would have had the phenomenal success that Disneyworld has had in Orlando. And who would have thought that Branson, Missouri would attract the big name stars that it has.

So if you're an entrepreneur--or know entrepeneurs--keep in mind the poem by Edgar Guest:
_IT COULDN'T BE DONE_

Somebody said that it couldn’t be done,
But, he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn’t," but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez

Attempting to make something "like" the Magic Castle is, I think, like "trying" to invent the next Color Monte. You can't do it on purpose.

What needs to be done is to NOT try and emulate the Castle or Tom Mullica's wonderful bar or whatever. Start new. Start fresh. You want a magic theme? Fine, great, go for it. They need a creative core of folks who LOVE magic. They need folks also who know food, drink, etc. And, in the end, they need a reason for folks to want to come and then come back. A reason for folks to tell their friends about the place and maybe take them with them the next time.

The Magic Castle works simply because folks WANT to go there and they have a huge cadre of "sales people" so to speak that can, "get you in". It succeeds because it's special.

Anything "like" it will have to find that formula for making itself special in a way that works well into the future.

Jennings, Ose and Vernon were all fine performers. Outside of the magic community, there were not known. They added a lot to the early days of the Magic Castle, but it was the Larsens' connection within the entertainment community in Los Angeles that brought in the A list celebrities of the day.

There were many factors that made the Castle a success and continue to make it a success. Brad is right that just replicating everything about the Castle in NYC would not make it a success. There's a very big difference between LA in 1963 and NYC in 2016. Then again, there is a big difference between LA in 2016 and NYC in 2016. What works for one will not necessarily work for the other.

What's important is to look at the elements that make the Castle (and other comparable successes) work and see if they are applicable to creating a permanent east coast magic venue. And it's important to also add in creative elements that are distinctive and unique.

It's not impossible, it will just be very difficult. There have been several attempts through the years to franchise the Magic Castle and set one up in NYC, but nothing has come of these efforts. Even David Copperfield and his partners burned through 37 million dollars to open a magic venue in NYC, they ran out of money and it never opened as planned. FYI, that project was finished by others, but they jettisoned the magic theme and opened it as a Salsa music club. It failed, and then others took it over and tried to run it as a Karaoke club and it too failed. That venue is currently sitting empty and would make a very good location for the kind of thing we are discussing here. If a member of the Café has a spare 5 million dollars in their pocket, send me a message!

More as a thought exercise than anything else I have spent a lot of time while walking thinking about the Castle and what makes it work. It's really quite extraordinary that a themed club has lasted as long as it has. Todd, as you noted even venues with millions of dollars behind them fail and fail and fail!

I decided some time ago that the Castle did (whether by luck or other) everything right. That's not to say perfect, but within the tolerance needed to establish the Castle and keep it going for so long....they hit on a wonderful formula. Think of it: What they came up with was a "Club House" for magic talent or all levels. They "allow" the "magicians" to wander about doing or not doing magic for non magic folks at will and they offer some nifty venues to guarantee that one and all SEE and Experience first class magic. But, the real secret is this: It's exclusive. You just can't wander in, etc. You need to 'know' someone.

The "regular/magician" members become a kind of sales force that pretty much guarantees a steady stream of paying customers.

Here's something that the Castle had that folks who are attempting to have the same thing don't have: Time. As I understand it, the Larsen's had TIME to slowly build up the mystique, the label, the brand of the Castle. I have concluded in listening to other attempts to do something similar that that is the biggest problem. In New York for instance, unless you have a huge war chest, whatever project you open HAS very little time to get into the black financially, etc.

I'm not saying that a magic venue can not be opened and be successful. I'm saying that no one unless they have years of time and the money to see it through can do what the Larsen's did with the Castle. They need a formula, a plan that makes the venue special in some manner that it draws folks to it quickly and is special and engaging enough that it will build over time into something that sustains.

The folks that want to go to a Magic Castle will simply have to go to THE Magic Castle and hope that a venue that serves up "magic" in an engaging manner will open near to them and be successful.

Brad, you are correct in your statement that there are many things the Castle got right. Beyond the magic that is performed there, several things have contributed to the Castle's success. The venue itself is one of them. A Gothic Victorian mansion on a hillside in Hollywood is as good as it gets. Magicians prize their secrets, so the exclusivity of having to know a member to get is ties into that well. Having a decent restaurant and lots a places in the venue where you can get a drink also helps. Another factor that people overlook, and many think is a detriment, is the dress code. That dress code makes an evening at the Castle just that much more special. And in ultra-casual So. Cal., having to put on a coat & ties or a dress makes the experience almost a visit to another dimension.

The Castle has worked because is has, in the words of a theater producer friend of mine, "Captured the imagination of the public." The idea of the place has intrigued the public, and a visit to the place lives up to what people imagined it to be.

Here in NYC we have a very successful show off-Broadway called Sleep No More. It is a site specific immersive theatrical experience. Patrons enter an old warehouse on quiet street on the industrial west side of Manhattan. The building has been decorated with five very large floors filled with elaborate sets that have transformed the place in the a spooky 1930s hotel. Patrons put on white Carnivale masks and are told they can not speak from there on in. Patrons then rove around this incredibly intricate environment, following the characters as they act out a non-verbal dance piece that is loosely based upon Macbeth. The various characters meet up, interact with each other by doing a short modern dance "scene" and then go on their way. Patrons spend three hours wandering the venue as if they were unseen ghosts, watching the various narratives unfold. It is very much like being immersed in a 1930s silent Hitchcock movie. At the end of it, you can visit and spend time in the bar or restaurant they have there. There is a cast of about twenty performer, and the night I saw it there had to be somewhere between 500 to 1,000 people watching the show. Tickets are about $100. There is no way to see everything, so some people return many times to see it again. And because the piece is non-verbal, international visitors can enjoy it as much as English speaking New Yorkers.

This production probably cost somewhere around 10 to 15 million to create, but if you do the math of the amount of people they put through there any given evening, and that run seven days a week, with some night doing two shows, you can see why it has been successful.

The mood and feel of Sleep No More make it a magical experience. If someone created a venue like this that actually had magic performed there, it would capture the imagination of the public.

Todd,
You make so many excellent points.
The exclusivity, dress code, knowing a member, etc., etc.
Everything you said was at the tip of my tongue.
I wish I was able to express it as well as you did.

An additional thought:
The location does not have to be in NYC. The real estate there is astronomical. It's harder to be profitable.
A short drive across the river to NJ or CT would probably work. After all, this is not a venue to attract people off the street. So a prime location is not needed.

Unfortunately, location does seem to matter. City Opera was a well respected performing arts organization for 70 years. They decided to move from Lincoln Center in Manhattan to the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Since City Opera was always a bit more daring than the Metropolitan Opera Company, the move to the very progressive BAM seemed like a good idea, and it was a lot cheaper to produce shows there. The City Opera went out of business after a couple of season there. The people that used to support it refused to make the short and easy trip to Brooklyn to see the critically acclaimed productions there.

As one of the producers of Monday Night Magic, I can speak from experience that location matters. We tried doing the show in the East Village and we almost went bankrupt. We are a handful of blocks away from that spot and are playing in the West Village now. We have had our best year ever.

It's a strange phenomenon that I don't quite understand, but know from personal experience that it is something not to be trifled with. Location, location, location.

I suspect that location is important. It's a destination event. The Magic Castle is in Hollywood. That gives it a certain caché. I dare say it wouldn't be as inviting if it was in Bellflower. It's the same with Manhattan as it is with Hollywood. There is a romance to it, a status to it, an excitement to it. My guess is that location is a very big factor in success or failure.

Perhaps you're right about "location".
I was thinking more of real estate costs. I can see the romance and excitement factor of it being in the Big Apple.

I agree with Todd. If you have never been to the Castle it's impossible to say in words or even to really show in pictures how oddly compelling the Magic Castle is. Part of that is the location. In Hollywood, but up above. The place LOOKS real. What I mean is that the Castle doesn't look like something that was created from the ground up to BE something. The atmosphere is oddly organic as if the place just "always" was a "magic" place. Even after the renovated that did not change. At least for me. All the parts just seem to work the way you would wish and imagine that they would.

It really is pretty nifty. I have long thought that if it was to have to go for some reason it would be like they had closed Disneyland. Only worse.

Todd,
Do,you know the latest about this endeavor?

If they were to build a new one on the east coast if it was in the northern end it would have to be near New York City or D.C. in my opinion and if in the South it would most likely have to be near a popular beach or Orlando.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I had the impression that you could get in if you are a current IBM or SAM member, and could furnish your membership card for proof?

That is correct. And as an SAM or IBM member, you can even bring a guest. Recommend calling first, as rules may change.

Hudson

Is that something you can do more than once a year? Genii subscribers get to go once each year.

Not that I find myself in la-la-land that often these days, but the Castle is on my bucket list.