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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
I watched Mr. Tango's demo/trailer for the TUC Poker Chip just for fun, and you should too.
At the end of his coins across effect there are three chips in right hand and one in left. The stack is placed on the table in plain sight while the left chip is vanished. After a search the fourth chip is found in the stack with the original three. Now, on the video, and certainly on a second viewing the stack has four coins all along. However, a live audience would never detect or even suspect this. It is great magic because the stack is never touched after the apparent "moment of magic." I wonder how many powerful moves and methods are avoided or overlooked because they do not work on a video. I suddenly realize all of the effects I like that would never work on a video -- or can never be shot on a video at all. I am all in favor of video as a teaching tool along with stepped instructions, but when it comes to creating a memory of magic ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
inigmntoya Inner circle DC area native, now in Atlanta 2350 Posts |
I fully agree. Things like that -- especially misdirection doesn't work on video. Maybe on first viewing, but it can't survive a replay with a now wary eye. But then it' was never meant for video, and doesn't have the same impact when seen on video either (even if fooled on the initial viewing).
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John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
Jaxon was selling a flipper coin routine that used a similar approach(item in plain sight). I like Jaxon's routine, but haven't got the courage to leave things in plain sight like that. Maybe as I work more with audience management and misdirection I will give it a try.
On a related note, I have found that the misdirection that is needed is different not just as the effect changes but also with the number of people in the audience (and a video is in someway an extreme case). I used to do a ring off a string effect(Tarbell 1 p137). It is a wonderful effect when done for one person (who is engaged holding both ends of the string), but when I did it for a larger group (of friends who were determined to not be fooled), there were (correct) suspicions of a dup. It seemed that I could keep the involved spectators attention, but the others were not so focused. John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Are people determined to not be fooled really friends?
but your point is very valid. One can have a profound trick in their pouch only appropriate on a rare occasion; and should have, methinks. Most of my tens of thousands of performances were one-on-one and allowed techniques and moves impractical in most settings. I now have dozens of sleights and moves with no where to go -- only a few can translate to larger venues. Perhaps that gave me courage, though.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
majish New user 4 Posts |
Video can be good and can be bad. Like any medium.
Some things can only be performed on video. Some things cannot be performed on video. |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 8, 2016, majish wrote: Certainly agree, the "good" and "bad" perhaps not the best terms as their is little moral concern here. "Effective" or "practical" may be better. One key issue is whether a video presentation fairly represents what a live spectator would see and experience in deciding whether and effect should be learned or not. Even a poorly shot video (bad) may be of value in learning or mastering a sleight, while a technically perfect video (good) may misrepresent how to get into an effect such as the initial load or ditch at the end. Some effects cannot be recorded on video if they are truly impromptu or selected because of a unique setting or audience affinity. Other videos, like the one in the OP, cannot address the misdirection and psychological ploys involved in some effects. Additionally, a training video offered by the effect originator must be evaluated differently from one shot by 12 year old as a skill demonstration. The ideal teaching modality may well be a combination of video, verbal and step drawings -- but that will be meaningful if a magician searching for a new effect rejects one "out of hand" because of a limited or biased video presentation. The same can be said of a written review that misrepresents some part of the effect or presentation limits. It is too easy to say, "magic is a visual art," while ignoring that magic happens in the mind from a variety of perceptional stimuli. I can appreciate a video presentation of various coin effects, for example, but always ask, "OK, in alive setting what will you do next? Where are you going to ditch those coins? Is this the beginning or ending of routine?"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
"Ya shoulda" seen Dick Stoner on a national TV show about 20 years ago!
He did a sit down wrist tie, and used the host's coat for cover for the "in & out" bit. Eventually, he was, of course, "out". Then he reached inside the host's coat, and pulled out a rubber chicken! BIG LAUGH! No! Not pre-loaded. "IT" was lying, uncovered, on a low table, NEXT TO DICK'S CHAIR, IN FULL VIEW, during the whole routine! Dick and I are old friends. He had to show me the videotape. I fully understand "hiding in plain sight". I've used the principle! But, this was the ULTIMATE!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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majish New user 4 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 8, 2016, funsway wrote: Honestly I have absolutely no idea what your point is here, or in posting this thread in the first place. Does it boil down to this? "I do some tricks that can't be filmed with a locked off camera due to the misdirection involved?" |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
The point is stated several times. Viewing a video like the one mentioned can "reveal method" and cause a person to reject the effect
when it will work well before a live audience. Video is great if done appreciates that it does not always represent what the audience sees. Some of the limitations has to do with misdirection -- others with the artificial framing. I happen to like the "in plain sight" ploy, but that is secondary. Glad you are joining in early with questions for clarifications.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Tony T New user 3 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 8, 2016, funsway wrote: Well this is a very worthy subject of conversation I am sure never struck anyone before. Sometimes, repeated viewing of a video can expose the method. Earth = shattered. Mind = blown. Thanks for sharing this invaluable insight. |
HarryB Regular user South Texas 127 Posts |
Anyone interested in further reading on the topic should look up tophat magazine on google. It's free and in volume 13 there is a whole article on this subject. The article is called The elegant sorcerer by Joshua Shuh. It's very well written and it's free. I have absolutely no affiliation with the magazine but I read the article yesterday and was impressed.
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Tony T New user 3 Posts |
Are you joking Harry? Someone wrote an article about how sometimes stuff is work-out-able if you watch it more than once on video?
Really? |
HarryB Regular user South Texas 127 Posts |
The article is on the concept of misdirection in general. Video vs. Live presentation is discussed as well but is only a small portion of the article. You're reply cracked me up. I wasn't replying to your post. Only the general concept of the thread.
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Yes, all of the psychological ploys used by magicians for centuries are finally being tested and named by neuroscience.
All are worth being studied -- especially since the perceptions of today's audience is rapidly changing Much of what we think we see is "filled in" by our brains from experience as a "look ahead" ability or a "congruency of memory." But, what happens when the experience is vicarious and instrumental and not functional and tested? Inattention Blindness and Attentional Bias both presume the viewer can "focus attention" in a meaningful or predictable manner, and is familiar with the objects involved. What would be the response to this video if the observers had never handled a basket ball? or had never seen humans with all those cloths on before? Certainly, part of the confidence in using a "in plain sight" ploy is Directed Focus on other activity, but some is base don sustaining the audience interest in what you are doing. An audience member playing a game on an Iphone who suddenly glances up may well see the gorilla and four coins in a stack. It may well be that when performing for a small group a magician can assume that some in the audience have never seen a live magic effect before, or are not familiar with the objects being used. How should that influence the choice of effects or sleights employed? I read an online article (suspect?) that a majority of Americans under 30 do not know how a deck of cards is configured, e.g. don't know there are only four aces. You and I see four aces dealt onto the table and focus on those cards in expectation and are blind to external actions. What of the kid who is waiting for a 5th ace to be dealt? Where is their attention?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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