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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » If you're AT ALL interested in mem-deck work YOU'RE GOING TO WANT TO READ THIS! (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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DrewBstoss
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QUESTIONS: Have you ever wished to be able to do mem-deck work but thought that your mind simply doesn't work that way? Are you still looking for a system that you're happy (and comfortable) with?

ANSWERS: Read on my friends!

**I should state up front that I don't believe in "magic-bullets" (except when it comes to Penn and Teller). This isn't like plugging into the Matrix and instantly downloading the information to your brain - it's still going to take some time and effort to get comfortable with what I'm offering.**

If you saw my earlier post about a new memorized deck system you're likely familiar with my recent OBSESSION with designing a fresh, user-friendly algorithmic memorized deck.

I received a lot of positive and helpful response from members of the forum on my first stab at a stack but about half of them commented that the system was still a bit too indirect for their liking.

That prompted me to return to the drawing board to develop a more intuitive stack. What I've come up with is REALLY exciting!

Just to clarify - since developing my newest system I've decided to adjust the names I've given them to better fit each stack. (I figure if anyone can, it's me!)

From now on I'm going to call the "Panacea Stack" the "BASE STACK" - and I'm calling my NEWEST system the "PANACEA STACK". (Confusing I know!)

The reason is that when I created the "Base Stack" I thought that was the best that I could do (and therefore my "panacea" to stack work). THEN I created the "Panacea Stack" (originally called the "Min-Mem System"...confusing I know!) and realized that IT WAS TRULY BY BEST EFFORT. I'm REALLY proud of this thing!

INTRODUCING: "Requiem - Two Innovative Approaches to the Memorized Deck"

I'm going to release these two stacks in one eBook because I feel like they highlight two very different approaches to a memorized deck system. The "Base Stack" is an algorithmic one while the "Panacea Stack" is more of an associative mnemonic system. While I anticipate that the community (at large) will be most excited about the "Panacea Stack" both systems have unique things to offer. Because no one stack fits everybody I hope readers will find that at least one of the stacks just "clicks" better with the way their mind works.

A little more details about both stacks:

The "Base Stack"

As I've posted before, the "Base Stack" is probably best described has a hybrid of Coffrin's "Si Stebbins", Osterlind's "BCS", and Richardson's "Lazy Magician's Memorized Deck". It allows you to identify the position of any card, as well as the card at any position, in the deck. Furthermore it functions as a cyclical stack. In it's basic form it easily passes as a thoroughly shuffled deck during casual inspection - but you can "enhance" the stack with a slight adjustment and it could surpass close scrutiny.

ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING FEATURES OF THE STACK is that it's constructed upon a set of "keys" (aka "bases"). As long as you can effective manage these "keys" you can place them in ANY sequence that you want. As strange as it sounds, this means that there are over 6.2 BILLION permutations to the standard "Base Stack" that require only one slight mental adjustment. The system is literally a malleable chameleon that you can make your own.

The "Panacea Stack"

Call me bias, but this one is THE LAMBORGHINI OF ALL SUCH STACKS. Those familiar with Doug Dyment's "QuickerStack" or The Unknown Mentalist's "Karma Deck" will see some similarities but this stack accomplishes my main objective - DESIGNING AN INTUITIVE STACK THAT MIRRORS THE SPEED AND ACCURACY OF A "REAL" MEMORIZED DECK.

One of the best aspects of this system is that a very convincing "shuffled" appearance wasn't sacrificed for ease of use - THIS THING HAS THEM BOTH! I offer two systems for randomizing the suits, one of which allows you do it WITHOUT ANY CALCULATIONS. It's difficult to explain (and may be difficult to believe), but once you understand and absorb the associative links built into the system you'll be able to literally just look at a position and know the correct card and vice versa.

Like I've posted before - these stacks are meant to act AS GATEWAYS to fully memorizing the sequences. If you've always wanted a memorized deck but feel that your brain "just doesn't work that way" I'm confident that you'll like the two systems that I'm offering.

THE CONFESSION:

I'm a "nobody" in the community. I've never released any of my other work so I have ZERO track record to help you feel confident in me as a creator.

I'm extremely confident that these systems will prove to be an IMMENSE addition to stack work (and benefit the community) but in order to get this out there I NEED YOUR HELP. I'd like to get some reviews on "Requiem" but it would be more beneficial if they all didn't come from friends of mine who took a look at them as they developed. It's better if those reviewing this "had some skin in the game".

THE OFFER:

For the next two weeks (until February 19th) I'd like to offer this eBook at the reduced price of $10 for those that are willing to take a chance and PROVIDE SOME FEEDBACK IN THIS THREAD. If you're interested let me know by posting your interest below. I'll then reach out to you with where to send the money via PayPal in the next couple of days.

THE BEST PART:

Along with the discount I'm offering a 100% MONEY BACK GUARANTEE - if you don't feel as though you received value for your money (and aren't excited by the systems) I'll refund your $10. You just need to send me a PM explaining why you feel that way and I'll happily return your small investment.

PLEASE NOTE: Currently the two documents are separate entities. I still need to combine them into one cohesive book. I imagine that will be done by the weekend though - your patience is appreciated until then!

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
DrewBstoss
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For good measure, I thought it might be helpful to include some initial feedback that's found over in the "Shuffled not Stirred" forum.

*FULL DISCLOSURE: Both of these members received free copies of the write-up on my "Base Stack". Their comments do not touch on my "Panacea Stack" (because at the time they received it, I had not yet completed that explanation).

HCS said:

"DrewBstoss states: 'The 'Base Stack' is probably best described has a hybrid of Coffrin's "Si Stebbins", Osterlind's "BCS", and Richardson's "Lazy Magician's Memorized Deck". It allows you to identify the position of any card, as well as the card at any position, in the deck. Furthermore it functions as a cyclical stack. In it's basic form it easily passes as a thoroughly shuffled deck during casual inspection - but you can "enhance" the stack with a slight adjustment and it could surpass the closest scrutiny.' 

That's absolutely correct! 

The Base stack in its naked form isn’t a memorized deck - it is an algorithmic stack.  

The Base stack gives you a framework for developing your own type of a non-tetrasdistic stack. The Base stack is a new approach for a math based stack- IMHO an uncut diamond for stack aficionados."

Sychou's comments on the "Base Stack":

"I received the PDF file from author.
 
I am impressed with the stack. 

Advantage:easy to learn the stack and Cyclical.
 
Disadvantage:I haven't found any particular built in feature in the stack.
 
Some math based stack got built in pattern to do particular trick such as Si Stebbin or Mirroring Stack. I think the stack is like a hybrid of Richard's BCS and 6-hours Joyal Stack,easy to learn,but no particular built in feature.

If you haven't learn a memorized deck,I think this is worth a look. 

Thanks again for DrewBstoss kindly sharing, he must have put in so much work to build a new algorithmic deck, anyone who ever tried to build one themself would know how difficult it is to come up with a algorithmic deck which is also cyclical.
 
Congrats my friend."
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
ash2arani
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Hi Drew, I am interested indeed. Terms & conditions accepted! Smile
DrewBstoss
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I really appreciate your interest ash2arani!

PM sent!
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
Lseeyou
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Ok I'm in 2
gmeister
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Hey, Drew, interested.
sjrw
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Mmm, I'd certainly be interested!
Alexxander
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It's nice that you put all this work into your stack.. But to be honest - I really don't get it.
Is it really that hard to memorize a stack? I mean of course, it requires some work.. But I can't believe that so many people struggle with this..
Also, it seems to me like a lot of people are just wasting their time by waiting for the ultimate stack to be released..
To paraphrase Darwin Ortiz: Just shuffle a deck and memorize it.
DrewBstoss
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Hi Alexxander! It's great to connect with you!

I do indeed agree that knowing the stack cold is THE WAY to work with a mem-deck (the final recommendation that I make in the book is to just get to that point) - I also recognize that some people need/want a system that functions like training wheels (or an emergency break Smile ).

While I've been blessed with a pretty strong memory my recent interactions with a number of people from the Café has demonstrated that not everyone feels they possess the same "gift".

I'll be honest, my "Base Stack" stemmed from a creative curiosity to see if I could design an algorithmic stack. When I shared it with a number of people I received some feedback that it just didn't click with some of them. I took that as a challenge and have become (probably overly) passionate about designing something that was within everyone's grasp. That's the path that led me to develop my "Panacea Stack".

The point of all this is to get people CONFIDENT with mem-deck work.

I don't claim that this is the last word on stacks or that it will mesh with everyone - but for those that are still on the search for their "Panacea" I hope this helps them along their journey.

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
Tom G
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Alexxander, yes for some (including myself) rote memorization doesn't work. I've even tried the mnemonic route, but that too doesn't work for me, believe me I tried. Everyone is wired different, fact of life, and while you and Mr. Ortiz might be able to sit down and memorize a deck, doesn't mean everyone can. I applaud Drew's efforts to put out a usable mem deck system. Obviously, if everyone could "just memorize it" there wouldn't be so many stack systems with rules and math over the straight memorizing route. Drew is working his system to become easier and easier and worth looking into.
Alex Tan
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I'm interested Smile
Nicolino
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Great approach and a quite unique one as well as far as I can tell.
I truly appreciate that kind of thinking and believe this stack (while not for me as I use another proprietary system) might well fill a niche for quite a few.

Good job, Drew!
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DrewBstoss
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Thanks for your kind words Nicolino! I appreciate that you've taken the time to look it over.

Speaking of "niches" - Mem-deck work strikes me as an interesting one.

I imagine that if you're really into such things than you likely ALREADY have your preferred system (Joyal, Mnemonica, Nikola, etc.) so it would be COMPLETELY counter-productive to make a switch.

If you're new to mem-deck work and the process of memorization seems daunting (or alternatively you just don't use a mem-deck enough in your repertoire to keep it fresh) than you're looking for an easy system to get you going. The balance here is a system that is user-friendly while still appearing mixed enough to not arouse suspicion.

I feel that my Panacea Stack really has something to offer those in the second group. I also feel that it provides a structure that will lead to (and encourage) genuine memorization but in a way that seem MUCH LESS DAUNTING.

I've now expanded the number of suit randomizing systems to FOUR (including one that is about as simple as I can devise while still preserving the mixed appearance) in an attempt to provide everyone a system that they are comfortable with.

I should also point out that because I perform as a mentalist, I didn't intend for these systems to have "built-in" effects (poker deals and the like) although others have informed me that there are a few possible. For me, and I imagine most people, the ability to know the position of a given card and the card at a given position is sufficient for the majority of effects that they'd use this for. The Base Stack is cyclical as well but the Panacea Stack isn't (by nature) - although once the system is understood and fully absorbed (or just memorized Smile ) it can be leveraged to that end.

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
Tom G
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Drew has done an amazing job with this stack.
tmoca
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I would definitely be interested in this!
tiptophat
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I would be interested in this as well! Smile
goatears
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Guys, this stack is really powerful. A 9 year old child could have the basics mastered in 10 or 15 minutes. I taught my wife in less time, while driving, and she was able to tell me the location of almost every card in the deck.

Today I set the deck up in order and ribbon spread it for some close friends. I told them that there was a stack and after a few minutes they still couldn't figure it out. That's after they knew it was in a stack.

That's a lot of power for very little work. This is really something special.
takeachance
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Hi Drew, I'll takeachance
Tom G
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I definitely agree with goatears. Drew has made up this stack to appeal to whatever works best for you. It's one stack with a few different ways to work it. I've come to the conclusion that
I'm not wired for mem deck work, but with Drew's stack and some work, I think I'll get there. I'm jealous of the people that can learn with rote memory or mnemonics, I've tried, but just not
for me. Drew has really put a lot of work into this stack and it shows.
DrewBstoss
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It really excites me to hear that Tom considers this to be a workable system!

And goatears - it's extremely gratifying to read about your experience with the "Panacea Stack" as well!

I believe in absolute transparency (avoiding outright/inappropriate exposure on a public forum of course) - so I wanted to let everyone know about two things at this time (that are somewhat related):

First - I've had someone ask about how effective these stacks would be in conjunction with Osterlind's card calling routine. The hope was that it would be extremely simple to move through a given sequence of the deck.

Second - I've had one reader so far feel that this just isn't for them - so I've issued a refund. I'm not pointing this out to say, "Look! Only ONE bad review!" (I'm sure others will feel the same) or alternatively, "That person is wrong - this is the greatest thing ever!" I simply want to remind everyone that I recognize (and accept) that this isn't for everyone. It's MY "panacea" but it may not be YOURS'.

Here's the response I provided in a PM regarding the first point (this by extension also touches on the second):

"I feel that both stacks are best suited to give you the card at a given position and vice versa. The "Base Stack" is cyclical but I can't guarantee that you'll find it easier than Osterlind's BCS. The extend of the math is really adding or subtracting 1 or 2 from one value to the next but in order to do it quickly its important to understand the various relationships present within the system.

Of course, once either of these stacks/systems become second nature then moving through any sequence of the deck is more than doable. To be honest, I feel that the real advantage of what I'm offering (especially in the "Panacea Stack") is that these systems provide a framework that makes GENUINE memorization (the unequivocal best way to leverage a mem-deck) within most peoples reach.

[I've received some feedback] that these stacks contain "too many rules". They felt it would be just as much work to simply memorize the deck. Some people will love the rules and work through them easily - others might find them too much to think about "under fire". I hope this second group will see though that the rules create a VERY straightforward way in which to drop them and move directly to memorization."

Anyway, thought I'd share all that for what it's worth Smile

Best,

Drew
"The world always seems brighter when you've just made something that wasn't there before." Neil Gaiman

Now Available: OMNI-TEST (Limited Release)
www.mindofandrews.com/omni-test

ARCHITECT OF THE MIND
For more information and to download a free preview visit the link below:
www.mindofandrews.com/colleagues

PENGUIN LIVE ACT: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/11689
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