Https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_WTRBde9r7k
Just an example of using ROPS at the right time. Enjoy!

Just an FYI, that essay is also published in the free eBook "Magic In Mind" at Vanishing Inc. Lots of other good essays on theory have been collected in there as well, and you can't beat the price.

https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-......wnloads/

Smile, it is apparent that you are not enamoured of this move. And that's ok, not every move fits everyone. However, this has been a great weapon for me and the others who have taken the time to learn it properly, and I have to disagree with your opinion that indicating the coin is not natural. It is very natural if the situation calls for it. Theory is great but only a guide. Actual practice is better, and it has been a move that not only has been effective, but one of the reasons I developed my reputation in magic.It is also important to do the move properly, unlike the clip you posted where a steal is obvious. We can agree to disagree, and rather than post every routine where its used, you can just look at other effects I've released and shown on you tube and see how effective it is. Check out Chris Korn's stuff as well. Cheers!

Hi Michael,

At first, I didn't know what to think about your ROPS move. Then I remember you showed me a good routine at your stand in Blackpool where you did it several times and it was very deceptive and smooth. I now think it's a good move. I do not use it yet personally because it is quite hard to get flawlessly, and I didn't put the work it requires into it. One of my many homework for the future.
I actually wanted to use it for the 2nd change of my Wild coin routine "Sauvage", but gave up as I couldn't do it deceptively enough.
All the best.
b

Hey back, I didn't realize we met! Check out the routine I posted above, it's an excellent example of when to use the move.

Indeed. Nice 1!

I did check out this routine (above) and the several others posted on YT of Doc at the Magic Castle and there's a lot of good stuff to see. His 2 Coin Monte posted above here, is a clever piece of work, and Doc's trademark pattering keeps you smiling all the way through. Doc looks like he was having a blast out there. I recommend you watch all the videos, all of them showcase some good coin magic from one of the best, one of our own. Great job, Doc!

I think one of the reasons it may not have "caught fire" is that people like me (fairly new to coin magic) tend to just gravitate to marketed routines and follow them step by step using the move the creator says to use at whatever point in the routine. I realised this recently when I found a particularly difficult move could be replaced by another move I was more comfortable with. I know of ROPS (and have for a long time from your old coin tapes). I just haven't run into a routine that said - "use ROPS here". Now that I have gone back and looked at it again, I do not see any reason not to use it.

Uploaded a vid to the CMU YT Channel featuring a closeup shot of Micheal doing the move.. Link in the Coin Magic YouTube Channel thread. Sorry not trying to spam yall w/ my little vids, just thought it was pertinent/useful for this thread as well..

I watched it in slow motion several times and can see the knack is to do the steal a fraction of a second after the coin is obscured by the closing fingers. This creates sort of a reverse ROV effect where it looks like the stealing hand didn't even touch the coin on the second tap..

FWIW I absolutely love the ROPS and agree with Doc R that it is one of, if not THE the best move in coin magic. For the longest time I had no idea how that coin vanished; it seemed to me to be as close to real magic as one could get. Been working on it for only a few months, so it's still got a long way to go, but I can't wait to add this to my weaponry - along with fear and surprise (obscure Monty Python reference there...).

As to why it's not widely used, it must be (as previously mentioned) the high level of difficulty, at least in my humble opinion.

This description reminded me of the Roth effect, 'And They Both Go Across', which I have found the ROPS to be useful for.

I do use the ROPS because from my experience, with the right timing (that is 'timing' in regards to a specific moment in the routining) it gives the same visual impression that a Retention of Vision pass does, but in a different way, though just as effective. Let me clarify that in case it is confusing: with the ROV (a well-executed one anyway) the audience will swear they saw the coin being placed into and left in the hand; with ROPS, they swear they saw that coin [begin] in your hand and that it remains in situ. It looks as if you did nothing. It simply looks as if you are gesturing/pointing at it to make a comment about it or whatever.

Just like the ROV, there is a certain timing that is necessary for the move to be deceptive. I think that both moves happen at the same exact moment (when the shield is fully engaged) but in different ways. The lead in and the ending movements for both are very different and the motivation for either move, as has already been pointed out, comes from the routining and the scripting.

Just like the C.P. is not for everyone, neither will the ROPS be for everyone. For me, it has been a move worth acquiring because in the right moments or in certain effects, it can prove (and has proven for me) to be a great substitute for other vanishes and stealing sequences.

Dr. J.

Will the ROPS move be covered in the forthcoming book of mister Rubinstein?

Chapter one is dedicated to the R.O.P.S. move and it's variations, with much new, never discussed before details on timing and common pitfalls, that should allow everyone to learn it properly. Included in the chapter are also the R.O.P.S. retention pass, the R.O.P.S.click pass, and Reed McClintock's R.O.P.S. double click pass.
Thanks for reviving this post. I believe that this is one of the most important moves in coin magic, because it allows you to openly and invisibly steal out a coin at the point where most of the time you need to take it out of the hand first and perform a ROV. This saves time, eliminates unnecessary handling, and has a use in most routines in coin magic. I looked back through this thread, and saw someone attempting to perform the move as he was dissing it. He performed it totally incorrectly, and his thoughts on the movements are incorrect. The move is explained on dvd in any of the material I have released, but I feel the material covered in the book addresses the timing issues that people discover as they attempt to perform the move.Timing and hand/finger movement is crucial.If the timing is off, it will look like you took the coin out of the hand.If your timing is right, it won't look like you did anything. Magic. Remember, as Vernon said, "Don't make unimportant things important".

The R.O.P.S. move is one of Michael Rubinstein's greatest contributions to coin magic. Its difficulty lies not in the need for finger-twisting motions, but in its timing. As Michael states above, if done poorly, it looks like you merely remove the coin from your hand. However, if done correctly, it looks like the coin stays right where it is and then vanishes. It is an amazing move.

Most of the time when I've seen the move done, it is done too fast. Even the times I've seen Michael himself do the move, he tends to rush it. In one of his lectures (I can't remember which), he does the move perfectly, and it was the first time I saw just how the move could actually have a ROV effect.

The business of rushing things when doing a secret move is a problem many magicians, including myself, have. It's the result of feeling guilty about doing something sneaky. It is something to be continually aware of.

David Fillary does the move fairly well. He looks away when he does it, which is the proper way of doing it. But he appears to tap the coin with two fingers. I believe the correct way of doing it is to make it appear you are tapping the coin with just the forefinger (I'm not sure about this). Still, it looks pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u1dldvuQNI&feature=youtu.be

You are right, I used to work fast (part of being a fast talking Vet to get my patients in and out for the 15 min allotted appt. time), and it took a lot of practice and determination to slow down. I have to say, age has helped, self criticism and re-analysis of my movements as well, but really making an effort when performing is the key, or I would go a mile a minute, like Robin Williams but not as funny

Https://youtu.be/7z85ZHZTkck
This is the R.O.P.S move, variation retention pass, and R.O.P.S retention pass, endibg with another R.O.P.S move

The R.O.P.S. move done beautifully there - twice. It's a great, original, and unique move, with good retention too.

Thanks Mike, great to see you doing your sleights.

How close is the action of openly turning over a coin to the setup for R. O. P. S. ?

The coin doesn't turn over before the move, unless you want to turn over the coin before performing it. The idea is to indicate the coin in the hand without handling it. During the actual execution of the move the coin rotates 90 degrees, then does turn over if you transfer the coin to fingertip rest at the end of the move.

Im so excited for this book. Thank you