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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Done within the context of the performance charecter it is right.
I had to have this exact discussion with a show I produced and directed. Not even a magic show. One of the toughest things on stage is to stand and listen to applause. Sounds dumb but it is true. It is why we do what we do, but if we don't let them appreciate what we do them it cuts down on enjoyment. That trekker of energy is for them more than you. Forcing them to release it builds almost resentment. It really is basic. The problem is while everyone wants to be taken seriously, so few want to sidi performance beyond what it takes to do the trick. There is SO. much more. Getting the moves down should be the start of a very long road. Unfortunately it is usually the destination and audiences are forced to suffer through an arduous learning curve.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Gordon the discombobulator Loyal user 246 Posts |
Close up or walk-around work is a different kettle of fish...
you are not performing in any formal setting and there is no etiquette for they way they should reward your work. There is no MC to bring you on or off to applause. The performance is usually more of an entertaining interactive conversation. Showing appreciation for my work is not usually shown by applause. It comes in phrases such as "how did you do that?". "that is amazing", "show us something else" As suggested above I still have to set their expectations and signal to them when I am about to reach a spectacular reveal or when I want them to be amazed. I use conversational questions such as "how would you react if...?" No matter if it is stage, parlour, close-up or whatever... you can never rely totally on a rigid script and expect every audience to applaud at exactly the same point in that script. Every show is different, every audience is different and it is the performer's acting and timing skills that will bring out the applause whenever it is needed. The million dollar question to ask yourself is ... are they applauding me [because of my personallity and entertainment skills] or are they applauding the inventor of the magic trick that I am performing. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Just so it is not because I am begging them to I am ok.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Thehedge New user 43 Posts |
I may be stubborn or simply uninformed, but why do magicians seek an applause? Does it serve a function? Or is it simply self esteem boost?
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
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ZachDavenport Inner circle Last time I posted I had one less than 1196 Posts |
Read Dick Oslund's first post on this thread.
Reality is a real killjoy.
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ColtonRaelund Regular user COLTON ZOROASTER RAELUND 116 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 29, 2016, ZachDavenport wrote: Ditto! |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Thank you Zach and Colton!
I tend to go on too long when I start "preaching". But, I think that it's important to discuss the "whys' even more than the "hows:. Old maxim: The man who knows "how", usually works FOR the man who knows "why".
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 29, 2016, Thehedge wrote: Yes! applause definitely serves a function! The days of passively watching a performer presenting a "watch me do this clever stuff" are long gone! A successful magician must interact with, and involve the spectators. Communication is a means of interacting, and involving. We communicate by "holding a conversation" with the spectator(s). (A "one sided" conversation, becomes a "speech"!) A wise performer learns to "break the fourth wall"! He talks "WITH", NOT, "TO" OR "AT" the folks. Magic is 5% sensory illusion, 5% sleight of hand skills, 5% esoteric science principles, and, EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT P S Y C H O L O G Y!!! (I may be a poor mathematician, but, I am a passable magician/entertainer! (Well, I "ate off it" for most of my life!) Watching a magician perform, if he is an ENTERTAINER, tends to build enthusiasm for the sheer fun of it! The spectator(s) feel a need to respond with appreciation. The socially acceptable way to do that is by applause! The wise magician, provides opportunities for the group to respond, by subtle cueing. It may be with a simple smile and a pause. It may be by styling. (I talked about THAT, in an earlier post.) Not only is applause good for those seeing the performance, BUT, it's important that the the client, who writes the check hears the applause too! In a school, where most of my programs were presented, the principal would often, introduce me, and then, quietly leave the auditorium to attend to other important duties. If he could hear the laughing and applause from his office, he knew that I was fulfilling his purpose. (School administrators are not theater managers! They book assembly programs because they know that the three "Rs" are important, but, also that there is a need to educate the students in social skills! The assembly is the principal'a class room!) May I suggest that you read, Nelms, Weber, Fitzkee, Maskelynne & Devant, et al, to gain a better understanding of audience dynamics! (END of "sermon"!)
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
Magician's don't so much seek applause as seek to entertain. In our society audiences show that they are entertained by applauding.
There are many situations where a magician might perform but not reasonably expect applause. Showing a trick to a few friends for instance. In that situations they would probably not applaud but their delight would be apparent on their faces and from their comments and questions. If a magician was doing a seance of course he would not expect applause. I'm sure there are other examples. Audience applause is a social behavior. People enjoy the feeling that they are part of a group. The applause isn't just for the performer it actually adds to the experience. |
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Rocky Elite user 486 Posts |
Audiences are programmed to applaud at the conclusion of a performance. Think about the last time you went to the theater to see a play. There may be some great performances throughout the production (especially musicals), yet the majority-if not all-the applause comes at the end of the show.
Should we expect no less of an audience after the conclusion of a magic show? Given that the odds of the average person attending a magic show outside the Las Vegas city limits are not that favorable given the lack of opportunities which exist for a full evening magic show, why would an audience decide to respond any differently in regards to applauding by waiting until the show is over? |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Rocky...I think you are comparing apples and oranges!
Yes...stand up comedians are working for a laugh after each funny line, joke, or story, and, applause at the finish. Novelty acts, magic, juggling, acrobats, etc. (if, they're any good, look for applause after a trick. Only a rank amateur would, at the end of a trick, ask for "A round of applause, for the handkerchief that changed color!" ---I have seen more than one such performer, do that! --And, the audience would applaud, in a perfunctory manner. I've been performing since October or 1945 for money, not coffee and cake! About 21 years later I quit being a part time professional, and became a full time professionsl. In all the years between 1945 and 2008, when I retired from full time, I got applause, encores, standing ovations, and money! Since 2008, I'm a part timer again. I still get applause after each trick, and, I still get money. I learned very early, how to tactfully and effectively, cue an audience to applaud. DORNY always said: "The 'bow' is part of the act." --and, so is applause.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
It depends on how the performer structures his show. When David Copperfield performs it's really a series of short plays, each one receiving applause as it ends. Other performers work more like stand up comedians.
I can imagine a performer putting on one long sustained act in which all of the applause comes at the end but I haven't seen it myself. I think it would be more of a play with magic than a magic show. If this is what Rocky aspires to I wish him well but there is nothing wrong with the other approaches either. (Actually when you watch a play the applause comes at the end of each Act not at the end of the play but the point remains) |
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Thehedge New user 43 Posts |
I believe there is a difference between stage and close-up magic. The more intimate the audience the less reasonable the applause. Yes, in traditional show style performances, applause is a socially understood method of communication with performer. As performances become more conversational, the purpose of applause changes. Yes, applause is important depending on setting. Yes, it can serve a function in close-up if attempting to draw attention. This attention can be good attention such as the person signing the checks or other potential audiences to provoke interest. But as a performer (close-up), I do not understand the need for applause. Applause is not bad, but I receive more valuable feedback through my interpersonal interactions. I disagree that applause benefits audiences. Separate from reinforcement from peers, I don't believe audiences experiences are negatively altered if they don't have opportunity to clap their hands together. That being said, it is a character preference or performers personal choice to cue applauses. I only cue an audience when I know why I am doing what I am doing, not because that is the way it has always been.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
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Rocky Elite user 486 Posts |
Its unfortunate that there are limited opportunities for todays audiences to applaud a magicians performance.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 2, 2016, Rocky wrote: True! --Have you considered that too many magicians present an act, or show, that is not good enough to be booked where they could get applause? Note! I am not "knocking" amateur performers, or, their programs. --I've seen many amateurs whose acts or shows are better han some professionals!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Rocky Elite user 486 Posts |
A friend of mine in college was a theater major as well as a skilled magician. He once shared at a magic meeting that when a person decides to pursue the art of magic...begin with at least a year of acting lessons before purchasing any magic related items/resources. He could entertain a crowd by PRETENDING to do a magic act. It was hilarious.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Interesting anecdote.....
The late NEIL FOSTER, who had done several seasons playing schools, and I, were "jackpotting" one day a Abbott's, about 20+ years ago. We were discussing, particularly, the occasional "quiet" audience. He told me of playing a small Catholic school, out east. At the finish of his first trick (ZOMBI!) he paused for the usual applause. The students in this elementary school, just smiled. No applause! It was the same reaction/response after each trick. Neil did an excellent program. There was plenty of color and flash. He had good comedy bits. No applause. He had to pad out his program with several extra routines to fill the 45 minutes. At the end of his "big finish", the kids applauded--long and loud! When the principal brought his check, and, thanked him with a big smile, Neil was curious! He mentioned the "unusual" (to him) student response. The principal said, "Oh! They really enjoyed and appreciated your program. We are emphasizing audience decorum, and, I think I may have inadvertently caused the "problem"! We had an orchestral concert last month, and, I told them, before they came to the auditorium, that, it was proper to applaud at the end of the concert!" I've never had a situation that extreme, but, especially in places when I had a "different" culture group, I've found them smiling and nodding their appreciation. I told several stories in my book about American Indian schools. The kids were extremely polite! I learned to greet them in their language!--That usually "broke the ice". I agree with the comment above, that in informal, small groups, sometimes hand clapping is not readily forthcoming, but, often enthusiastic verbal comments are. A professional knows when to PAUSE, and, allow the group to verbally respond. I've pointed out many times that interaction and involvement are necessary. The days of passively watching a performance are over. I always talk WITH. not AT or TO the spectator(s).
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 5, 2016, Rocky wrote: YUP!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
I have always been uneasy with applause in a close up situation.
As the performer, you do everything you can do to break any theatrical "fourth wall," and then you expect the "audience" to respond as if you were onstage. That's even a little creepy. When would normal humans applaud when they were in the same proximity as in a close up scenario? I can only think of one time - when an infant feeds itself, or burps, or stands up, or goes potty. That may get applause. But otherwise, it rarely happens. Should your magic be deemed in the same class as a bowel movement? I think that applause developed to permit a distant audience to express its approval at what the performer on stage has done. That is not appropriate in the more informal - and physically closer - environment of the table hopper or party stroller. I think that a simple, "That was great," or "How did you do that?" is an appropriate reaction from an "audience" in that case. If that is not satisfying, maybe you are too close. I guess I agree with Thehedge. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I guess my experience has been different. I have never had to encourage applause. It just happens.
Now mind you it may very well have to do with where and when you work. If yoy are doing a couple of tricks before the salad arrives and then you scamper away on a family night then yea don't expect applause. If you sit down after dinner and are invited and it is more of a show them plan on applause. If you barge in on them unexpected don't plan on many applause.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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