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carlyle Regular user 166 Posts |
I am working on a simple idea and I'm looking for a method to ditch a face-down card sandwiched between two face-up cards.
To make it a little clearer - say you have the 4 Queens, and (say) a red ace is sandwiched face-down between the two face up red Queens. These three cards are placed in the middle of the deck. The two black Queens are then also displayed and cut into the deck. Ribbon spread, showing the face-down ace is instantly transposed from between the red Queens to between the black Queens (all Queens being face-up). The inspiration is from "Which Jacks Are Better?" by Shigeo Takagi (Apocalypse vol. 2) - I like the idea a lot, but would like to try to make it even more "instantaneous" to suit my taste (and keep all Queens face up and very little shuffling/cutting). The "ditch" can go anywhere (but maybe not to the top of the deck -as the red ace will remain at the top). I suppose a side-steal after a spread (to show the red Jacks and sandwich) is the most obvious option - or a spread cull - but both actions are a bit beyond me at such a point. As the effect is written in Apocalypse, there's an method devised by Vincent Sabatino - bold and easy, and I've used it twice, but not sure how it will work with all people. I'm trying to figure out other ways to ditch the middle card (it can go anywhere, more or less) - either at the very beginning, or when you insert them into the deck, or after a (possible) spread and display. |
ThomasJ Special user Chicago 999 Posts |
Hi Carlyle,
Are you getting rid of the FD card from the sandwich, or moving it between the other mates? Also, when you say the red ace will remain at the top, is this the red ace from the sandwich? Why is it remaining at the top? I hope my questions doesn't come off as crass, I am just really confused but studied the sandwich plot for a while and would like to help if possible. Regards, TJ |
ThomasJ Special user Chicago 999 Posts |
You might take interest in David Britland's "Progressive Jacks". Any card is selected (no force) while the jacks are face up on the table. The spectator chooses (no force) which color jacks to shuffle into the deck. Let us assume they pick the black jacks. The black jacks are shuffled or cut into the deck depending on your skill level / preferred method. Spectator then cuts off roughly half the deck and the jacks of the opposite color are dropped on top, outjogged (the red jacks in this instance). The spectator can complete the cut and square the deck. You (or the spectator if you like anticlimactic effects) can immediately spread the deck face down. The resulting image is one in which the red jacks have trapped the black jacks, which have trapped the selection in the middle of the deck.
There's an effect in RICHARD's ALMANAC similar to what you are pursuing above, but the selection is between the red mates, then black mates, and then (if my memory serves me) back to the red mates. I didn't feel it was strong enough to perform often, but it was fun to play around with. If you're interested I'll figure out which issue it was. I'm still interested in helping with your original dilemma though, as I feel the solution you're getting at would be a utility move applicable to more than sandwich effects. |
seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
I'm uploading a video to Youtube now outlining a simple, if unremarkable a solution. I hope to have a link to post shortly.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
I've thought of another method, because that's what happens when you study Marlo - just can't let it go.
Another solution. Watch out for the volume.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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AsL Special user 680 Posts |
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On Mar 25, 2016, seraph127 wrote: Although it wasn't my question, I just wanted to commend you for going such great lengths to help a fellow Café member. It's people like you that make this such a great place! |
ThomasJ Special user Chicago 999 Posts |
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On Mar 25, 2016, seraph127 wrote: Meets the requirements above for sure. You could even sidejog the Ace as it's squared in from an outjog position between the queens, then subsequently execute Vernon's Transfer move as the left hand grabs the "sandwich" and right hand cuts the deck. The original sandwich cards will appear to have never come near the top of the pack. |
seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
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On Mar 25, 2016, AsL wrote: Thanks. I just couldn't bear the thought of typing all that out, so I used my laptop's cheap-o webcam and cooked it up in Windows Movie Maker. It was a fun little problem.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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carlyle Regular user 166 Posts |
Wow, thanks for the help and suggestions! Seraph127 - very kind of you, thanks for the video explanations, I appreciate it. My original handling was similar to your second solution (a sort of count, getting the Ace to the bottom of the packet - but was concerned it might be a little bold for everyone). I really like your first one, and will work on it. I practice a move something like it (in a J.K. Hartman trick), but couldn't figure out how to use it here - but the cutting of the deck as you do is a great solution for the strip-out. I was left with a side-jogged card and didn't know how to get rid of it in a natural way, but this makes nice sense. Thanks again for your time, very nice.
ThomasJ - thanks for the questions and suggestions. I've been working on the transfer move - it's a move that makes me nervous, I admit, and not sure I have the confidence yet. I suppose just a lot more practice, and the card won't feel so "big" in my hand. But here, it is something I will try (it would make it very clean-looking). The reason I didn't want the card to the top (in my original post) was that my idea was very basic (and now seeing Seraph's video, my idea was not nearly as good as his suggestion). I was just going to DL the top card, flip it back down, thumb an indifferent card between the Queens, reverse count two cards ("the red ace is between the red Queens"), and stab the three cards into the deck. The sandwich couldn't be flashed, so the suggestions given are a great improvement. I was also thinking of using a three-card monty move to get sandwich to the bottom of the packet (from "Card College 5", "The Homesick Jester", I believe), but all the cards would need to be face-down. Thanks again for the help - very nice and much appreciated! |
seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
No problem. It was a fun little puzzle to work out. In the second video, I made the unloading of the ace super obvious to compensate for the hideous webcam video. In performance, you'd have a break over the card, turn the hand to show, then, as you come to peel off the queen, drop off the "broken" ace in a continuing action of peeling off the queen. I don't think it's likely to be noticed. Anyway, hope you have fun with it.
Quote:
You could even sidejog the Ace as it's squared in from an outjog position between the queens, then subsequently execute Vernon's Transfer move as the left hand grabs the "sandwich" and right hand cuts the deck. The original sandwich cards will appear to have never come near the top of the pack. That's a sound idea.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Here's another idea for standup:
1)At the top of the deck have the face up black queens, the face up red queens on top of these, and the red ace on top of all. Openly turn the ace face down and slip it between the red queens. 2)Peel off the first Q into the L palm. 3) Peel the face down Ace onto the Q, keeping a break. Biddle Steal the A as you peel off the second red Q. 4)R index finger open picks up about half the pack at the outer L corner, insert the Q's into the gap. As you square, obtain a R thumb break above the stolen A at bottom. 5)Now Kick Cut about 1/4 of the pack into the L hand (the face up black Q's should be on top of this packet). Spread the black Q's over to the right. 6)Slide the RH packet (about 3/4 of the deck with face up red Q's in middle) to the left over the LH packet, feeding the inner R corner of the uppermost black Q into the break at bottom of RH packet. Square up. 7)Magic gesture (if you're into that sort of thing), begin spreading til you come to the two face up red Q's. No A b/n them. Continue spreading to the black Q's to show the face down red A b/n them.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
I think that the effect would be enhanced by burying the pairs in separate half decks. Using the first method, you'd place the three with jogged ace onto the deck and lift up the top half, exposing the lower half. Now remove the pair as three and place it onto the lower half as you continue to hold the upper half. Cut the lower half and proceed with sandwiching the ace between the other kings and burying them in the upper half. Now you get a tranpo between separate half decks instead of inside the deck.
You could also just do a double lift, showing the ace. Then turn the double down and place the top X card between two of the kings. Now take the other two and do the standard loading move from the top of the deck. All that needs to happen now is to displace the X card from between the kings to the bottom of the three card packet. One way is to peel the cards one by one ostensibly showing the X card between the two kings. But you secretly steal back the first king under the packet as you peel the X card into L hand. Now place the two Ks as one on top. Mission accomplished. The rest is obvious I think. Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
carlyle Regular user 166 Posts |
Seraph - thanks for the further idea, I like it. Never thought about a bottom-deck sort of "feed", but it is interesting to try it. I've also been going over your second idea a few times more, I understand the count/drop idea better now (thanks for the added explanation in your post, that made it clear). I've been working on the ideas and enjoying it.
Mike Powers - great idea, the two half decks. I will certainly try it - would seem to make it clearer and have everything separate the whole time. My original idea was a DL, but thought it might be a little "off" not being able to flash the sandwich (as in the videos from Seraph). And then I thought there'd be more options for the "ditch", because you wouldn't have to keep track of it anymore (as the sandwhich card remains on top). Thanks for all the ideas and all your time - very kind. I wanted to try and combine several effects with four of a kind, and wanted something like this as one of the effects (just as a short routine without selections being made - the four queens, or kings or aces, etc. are of course easily remembered) and it's something I've been trying to improve for a while now. |
Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
Larry Jennings' "The Visitor" is a fantastic effect in which a signed selection vanishes from between the red kings and appears between the black kings. Then, it goes back! It's difficult to beat this great routine for creating a mind blowing effect.
Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2983 Posts |
There's an effect in my book Top Secret Stuff called The Unexpected Visitor which only uses four Queens and a signed selection. The selection vanishes from between one pair of queens and ends up between the other two in the spectator's hand.
The routine was also in my One Man Parade in the April 2015 Linking Ring along with a spin off routine called "The Fly." Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Mike, those are great ideas. Thanks much!
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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seraph127 Special user 587 Posts |
Quote:
You could even sidejog the Ace as it's squared in from an outjog position between the queens, then subsequently execute Vernon's Transfer move as the left hand grabs the "sandwich" and right hand cuts the deck. The original sandwich cards will appear to have never come near the top of the pack. The more I think this over the better I like it. The transfer move would definitely have the effect you describe, and the "outjog to sidejog" approach would probably turn out to be even easier than my original idea of a cull/side steal type action.
There are many tricks, and many effects, but rarely a Grand Effect. There are many entertainers, but few real magicians. Many technicians, but few artists who use their art to explore their vision. - Derren Brown, Absolute Magic
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carlyle Regular user 166 Posts |
Mike Powers - Thanks for the references, I'll see what I can find (many too many books on my list, but there's so much nice stuff out there - I love magic books).
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