http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_br......y=498405

Is that a little harsh? Maybe, maybe not. I know one of those guys appears on tv magic shows every chance he gets.

I didn't see the show, but according to the article's description of the effects "exposed," the context was clearly the false exposure of a sucker trick. The description of the walking thru the mirror and coin penetration read very clearly as sucker effects, meant to leave the audience thinking they knew the secret, and then adding a kicker that left the audience even more bewildered than when they began. If, in fact, the article was accurate about what occurred on that show, then I am at a loss how one could call this exposure.

Jack Shalom

I think the whole thing was a reaction to the genre of exposure programmes on television and this was at prime time on a Saturday night. The hyper sensitivity around exposure at this time may have contributed. Still exposure is exposure and it could damage people's perceptions of what these magicians were about. Of course it could be the slippery slope argument that was used...

How does persecuting some for crimes they did not commit serve to reinforce values?

If anything such behavior discredits the institutions as effective and sincere. There is no recourse in magic for being fooled. Acting on misinformation or rumor is not consonant with the wisdom expected of magicians.

The 'Magic Circle' also threw out Pat Page for his book on magic many years ago.

To me it seems they do not tolorate any exposure of any kind. I believe they call this 'No Tolerance Policy', which they may have established.

Obviously, those of you who think this is a bit harsh are not members of The Magic Circle of London, nor do you have any of the information on the shows involved.

This whole thing took place a few months ago. Among those expelled were Anthony Owen, who was the former editor of the Magic Circular. There are numerous factual errors in the article, not the least of which concerns the number of Members of the Inner Magic Circle -- there are 285 of us, not 200.

The premise of the show in question was to have people guess how a trick was done, expose the method, then do it again using another method. The act of exposure, whether it is your own method or someone else's is absolutely forbidden by the Magic Circle.

Period.

The fellows involved caused an incredible ruckus about this, many members wrote heated letters to the Council, and since the explanations they got from those who chose to give them were unsatisfactory, the Council suspended one of them. Others chose to resign.

The news paper article is stretching things a bit when it says "Now the very survival of the Magic Circle's oath of secrecy is in doubt."

This was not the first time such a thing has happened. David Devant, who was one of the founders of the Magic Circle, wrote a series of articles in the Times, explaining how to do some of his own tricks -- not major illusions, mind you, and his membership was suspended for a year. He did not fight this. He took his punishment like a man.

Patrick Page's suspension was for an entirely different reason. The Magic Circle has established a minimum price for a book teaching any secrets of magic to the public. Pat wrote a book which was supposed to sell for well over that price, but the publishing company that had the rights to it went bankrupt. Bell Publishers, Ltd. purchased the rights to the book and published it for well below the stipulated price. Pat was not happy about this, but he couldn't do anything about it. In spite of the fact that he had no control over the price, the Circle suspended him for a year, anyway.

Let me point out that ALL of these "expulsions" were actually suspensions. They were not permanent.

Also, let me point out that other organizations, such as the IBM and SAM also have minimum prices for "layman" publications.

I took the same oath as all of the other members when I joined in 1986. It doesn't mean that I can't teach, and it doesn't mean that I can't write. But it does mean that I can't expose ANY methods, without running the risk of being suspended.

This is just Andrew O'Connor's way of getting a little extra publicity in case the show goes into repeats.

Thank you for the information Bill. Perhaps this will set the record straight.

I should add a couple of things here:

The Magic Circle's motto is:
Indocilis Privata Loqui. This does not mean, as some have said "unable to locate one's privates." It means "Not likely to tell secrets."

The English magicians have taken exposure far more seriously than those of us in the US. When one of the Fox Masked Magician episodes was to air, a group of younger magicians actually disabled the satellite feed temporarily. They were never caught, to my knowledge.

Some of the magicians over there do not take the Magic Circle seriously. Maybe it's part of the "prophet not being recognized in his home town" syndrome. More than half of the members are not located in London. Many of them are in the US. It is not an inexpensive organization to belong to. There are actually some very strict requirements. You actually have to prove your merit to advance in the organization.

Bill,
Thanks for the background on the suspensions. Considering the circumstances, Page's suspension seems harsh. What was the Circle's rationale?

Are you at liberty to reveal the minimum price set by the Magic Circle for a book of magic secrets for the general public? Is there a also a minimum price for books for the magic fraternity?
DaveS

I cant seem to see the story on the link above who were they.

What in the world is this discussion about--in a rhetorical sense?

There are literally thousands of magic books. There are magic seminars, lectures, workshops and discussion groups.

There are magic magazines, newsletters, videos, pamphlets, and web sites, all teaching how to do magic tricks.

Is all of this exposure? Do all of the literally thousands of people who write this material and teach classes get suspended or penalized?

Just what's going on? What about the thousands of books and magazines and web sites and videos?

Just posing a tough rhetorical question or two.

This is old news. Reread the original post.

The Magic Circle has no problem with people charging a reasonable price for a book or a video. The inicident with Pat Page happened over 15 years ago.

It's been resolved.

Strange things about the 'Secrets of magic programme' is that the magicians involved didn't realise they were doing anything wrong untill it was too late!
Yes they were kind of sucker tricks that were revealed but...they were ways of doing the magic.
all that said the second show is in production.
I didn't like the programme as when watching it with my fiends one of them said
" magic is pretty naff realy...its so *** simple"
I am a slight of hand guy and this got to me! it was almost as though my 7 hours a day of pratice was for nothing!
That was my inital reaction so no-one complain that I am being stupid as it is very much worth learning slight of hand (but that is a different thread).

I wish this next programme wasn't going ahead as it is convincing the lay public that magic is just about tricking people!

In Magic
Steve Dela