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Mindpro Eternal Order 10618 Posts 
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Greg makes a great point. This is a feature headlining performance and it must play that way. Having a single set is not applicable for this performance market, period. If there is one thing the cruise ship performer should be, it's adaptable.
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts
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There are cruises and there are cruises.
A three-day, two-night cruise to nowhere has needs that are very different from the needs of a 7-day cruise. The week cruise will likely need more than one full show, as well as spots on a variety bill, smaller spots here and there, MC duties for shows the magician is not performing in, schmoozing with the passengers, etc. You will need a variety of material from close up to grand scale. And remember it is a captive audience - you need to do different material every time you appear - you can't just rearrange and recycle stuff from your other shows. These kinds of considerations apply to comedians too; I don't think a cruise ship comedian can get by with only a "solid twenty." Unless you you are a one-appearance headliner. That's a different story too. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Yea it really gets back to not having to if you knew and were ready then asking wouldn't be necessary.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
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Excuse me for jumping in, but I'm really interested in this "big league" (for lack of a better term) discussion. I was a musician for many years. Playing cruise ships as a staff performer was the bottom of the barrel, not just for musicians but also was for actors, dancers, singers, comics and other performers. Can't say I ever saw a magician on a cruise ship. Why would cruise ships be "cream of the crop" for magicians, but "bottom of the barrel" for other performers?
As a musician, cruise ships were the embarrassing beginning of my career, the "any gig I can get" kind of thing (though I did come back later for "guest artist" gigs where we were treated as passengers and did one show night per cruise). The headliners such as singers, comics, etc., were also at the bare beginning or the arse end of their careers. So I guess I'm wondering if it's different for magicians for some reason, or have cruise ship performers overall gotten way better over the years?
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10618 Posts
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It all depends on your status from which you are booked. A staff performer is quite different from a feature/headlining performer. Accommodations, treatment, perception, pay and much more. Unfortunately magicians have always seem to be interchangeable for the most part unless you are of a feature performer/artist or special talent. Of course it can vary from cruise line to cruise line and also the agency.
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
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Quote:
On May 18, 2016, danaruns wrote: I don't think it's the top of the entertainment pyramid by any stretch but it requires a specific level of professionalism to handle. It might not be a glamour gig but I'm sure you were a good session musician or you wouldn't have been booked. People need to appreciate that it isn't something where you can just throw some things together for and "get by". It is a very specific type of venue that requires knowledge to do. I would also think that if you were a staff musician, you weren't being asked to carry a 45 minute show on your own as a production act is. Not exactly an entry level skill in show business. Quote:
As a musician, cruise ships were the embarrassing beginning of my career, the "any gig I can get" kind of thing (though I did come back later for "guest artist" gigs where we were treated as passengers and did one show night per cruise). The headliners such as singers, comics, etc., were also at the bare beginning or the arse end of their careers. So I guess I'm wondering if it's different for magicians for some reason, or have cruise ship performers overall gotten way better over the years? Yes, and no. The staff talent (Musicians, Dancers, etc.) is the lowest end of the performing spectrum on board but as you mentioned, when you're booked as an act, it's not as bad. A wonderful friend of mine who has done cruise work on and off for years and is a master performer always astutely said that cruise ships are where you work on the way up and on the way down. There is a certain truth in that. Our point on here is simply that if you need to carry a full evening show by yourself you better have the experience and talent to pull that off or you'll be ditched at the next port!
Ray Pierce
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
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Thank you for the thoughtful replies. Just one more curiosity, if you don't mind: Do you have to tailor your act to take into account the "motion of the ocean?" Some cruises can get pretty rough. I can just imagine, on a rough night, some treasured box illusion sliding or rolling right off stage!
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts
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Quote:
On May 18, 2016, danaruns wrote: A really great variety performer, Thom Wall (currently with Cirque du Soleil), has a blog talking about his experiences on cruise ships. He has a knife balancing act! ha. Here is the link - http://thomwall.com/two-months-at-sea/ |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
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Quote:
On May 18, 2016, danaruns wrote: lol... absolutely! When I first started I had rolling tables, illusions and they would roll all over the place! You always hope for port days to do your show but on sea days you never had any idea how rough it would be as you know. You do learn to chock the wheels and accommodate the motion. I was a dancer so there were a lot of positions I had to modify as the stage could shift underneath you so balance was tenuous at best! I was very lucky in that there was a low end line called the Azure Seas (affectionately called the Azure Sleaze) doing 3 day/4 day cruises to Mexico out of LA and it allowed a lot of magicians the chance to learn the industry with out big pressure. Ron Wilson booked it and it was a great chance to learn the ropes. Everyone was a strong pro on land with plenty of material and experience but ships took some time to adjust to and this was the perfect training ground. I could have never gone on to the nicer lines without learning here.
Ray Pierce
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts
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I can't remember the name, but, I do remember hearing of a magician (YEARS AGO!) who managed to get himself booked on a cruise. His act was so bad, that, after his first night, the cruise director fired him. They were at sea! The magician spent the remainder of the cruise, WASHING DISHES!
Ray, Danny, MindPro, and Jerskin have "told it like it IS!". Listen to those who have "been there and done it!" I once had an interest in doing trade shows. I talked with Eddie Tullock's "agent". When he explained the details, I realized that, trade shows were "not for me". An old carnie once told me (I had started in the business as a kid doing magic and fire eating, in a side show.) to "pick one thing" and "STAY WITH IT". I've learned, over the years, that that old carnie was right! I had been playing schools part time for 20 years, when I went full time. In the ensuing years, I learned just about everything about the Lyceum business. Performing, was "just a part" of it. I became a "talent consultant" (booker) too. ("SHOW BUSINESS" is 2/3 BUSINESS!) I didn't have to ask for "work". Managers would call ME! Looking back, I don't think that I would have really 'fit in" on a cruise ship. It might have been fun to try it once, but, that old carnie was right!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts
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While that can be good advice Dick, I think a lot has changed in recent years. I remember listening to a podcast a few weeks ago and some young (20-30's) magicians were discussing how they are giving everything a try. The 2 of them on the podcast had both worked for major theme parks, cruise lines, fringe festivals, corporate gigs, and fairs and festivals in about 2 years time. They encouraged performers to do the same and see what works best for them. Now both of these guys have good solid acts, but they didn't talk about having to adapt too much for the various venues. They both have stand up acts with all your typical stuff (bill in lemon, torn and restored napkin, coin pail, mind reading, card tricks, etc.).
Of course... before you get to that point... you have to build a good, solid, commercial act. That's the real secret as far as I can tell. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Yes guys with a few years experience always know more. Good point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts
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Yeah Danny!
The fact that 'those two guys" had worked all those markets in two years, makes one wonder! --Did they get ANY repeat bookings?
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts
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Quote:
On May 19, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: They don't know more. They are just part of a totally different generation than you and Dick. Thom Wall, the variety performer I mentioned earlier has worked cruise ships, Fringe Festivals, Cirque du Soleil, and Busch Gardens Florida in the past 2 years. He's currently back with Cirque. Performers in 2016 don't always focus on one thing, and one market. They focus on creating a commercial act that can work in a variety of markets. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Yep nobody had ever thought of that before. What a revolutionary idea!
It might change the way performers think of their careers!!!! Thank you from all of us
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2604 Posts
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I do believe you need to have the ability to diversify for today's market. I understand the desire to have one act that plays everywhere but with that desire to have a universal act, the more diluted it might end up being. I can't see anyone doing 5 or 6 stock tricks rising too far in a saturated market. Can they work? Sure but with buyers looking for something different, it's hard to picturing them standing out. I've always designed my show in modules that can be arranged to fit different markets. I know there are some people that we say "can work anywhere" but that's not really true. The same act they would use in a parlour setting might not do as well on a 60 foot proscenium stage for 2000 people. On the other hand if they restrict their shows to similar size venues there could be some overlap.
I just worked with Chipper Lowell recently who is a consummate pro that's been in the business for years. He does a zany comedic act with a lot of props, audience participation, magic and juggling. He also has a LOT of material and can sculpt the show to fit a wide variety of markets. There is nothing generic about anything he does but he has developed modules that he can draw from to create a show for a lot of situations. He doesn't just do the same 5 stock tricks that everyone else does everywhere he goes. Jeff McBride talks about his Commando Act he can do "anywhere" that fits in an eyeglass case but I feel this is more of an emergency case where you are never unprepared in case everything gets lost rather than depending on it as your "A" material. The more you can customize your act or show to fit the individual needs of specific markets, the more you increase your value to them.
Ray Pierce
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Oh no Ray this is a new idea. We were just told so. It is the future!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts
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Quote:
On May 19, 2016, Ray Pierce wrote: This is a really good point. Some modules can be in multiple shows. For example a linking ring routine could work for both a stage and parlor show. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Just for informational sake parlor is a term few of any in the world outside of magicians ever use.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts
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Yes, Parlour Room has been replaced by the Multipurpose Room, to the Family Room her in America, and again to the Great Room.
These are not birthday parties or children parties. The British magicians have brought back the Parlour Room, and have been using the term for shows performed in peoples homes. I have seen videos of them bringing in Portable bars, lamps, and the like to create a setting, along with bar stools for the small audience. More of a Formal Close-up show for adults and millennials. Has not caught on here in the U.S., but who knows, maybe the Family Room shows will catch on. 
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Posted: May 18, 2016 03:44 pm 
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