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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Hey Stone. Nice of you to come and go, talking of Michelangelo.
There will be time.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Quote:
On May 17, 2016, R.S. wrote: A simple definition of common sense; the ability to think and behave in a reasonable way and to make good decisions. But you right, common sense is not so common. But not everyone will view science reports the same either. The reason I say common sense is so important is, every day we all face thousands of decisions both small and major, from whether to eat that next potato chip to when to buy that new car or to change careers. With every decision we take, every judgment we make, there is a battle in our mind, a battle between ‘instinct’ and ‘common sense.’ Science doesn’t come into play as much as you may think when making all those conscious and subconscious decisions. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea it does.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On May 17, 2016, TomBoleware wrote: Here's the thing... we all like to think we are "reasonable", but the fact is that humans are incredibly fallible. We filter our experiences through inherently faulty senses. Memory is notoriously unreliable. We are susceptible to optical illusions and hallucinations. We are prone to confirmation bias. Our brains evolved to be "just good enough" - to help us recognize patterns and movement in the jungle in order to avoid predators and to survive in that environment. It is not built to intuitively comprehend relativity or quantum mechanics. Without the aid of instruments, we experience only a tiny range of the electromagnetic and audio spectrum. We lack expertise in many things. The fact that magicians make a living by fooling people and exploiting our cognitive shortcomings is proof that you can't always rely on your senses to interpret the world. So the scientific method is a systematic attempt to reduce/eliminate those flaws in our perceptions. Sure, when it comes to food choices or when to buy a car or other mundane decisions, you can get by on your own intuition. But for evaluating claims and arriving at objective truths about the world, science is the best method we have. More than that, it is essential in our modern world. No science equals no progress. Do you agree? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Oh I agree that science has its place and we do need it.
Sadly oh, the word ‘science’ is often used to trick people. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On May 18, 2016, TomBoleware wrote: "Trick" might be too strong, but it's definitely a powerful bluff.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The notion of common sense is designed to deceive.
If you wish to disprove the above, implement what you believe to be common sense in a context and then let someone else check that it (your implementation) is correct. You can fool yourself...but please don't be too surprised if others are curious about the activity.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Stoneunhingrd asked about science and the sentimental, impulsive and subjective. Of course any observable, describable and measurable qualia is available to inspection by the scientific method (test against null hypothesis for significant measures as distinguished from baseline variation within confidence limits).
As to whether people would feel flattered to have real-time behavior checked against demographic or personal process norms... not likely. Imagine having jiminy cricket and mister Spock offering advice as you make decisions. The good news is that we probably do this unconsciously. The bad news is that it's not always flattering to externalize the process into language or public discussion. Is it a lie if you never say it in words and you use words to describe how you believe otherwise?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On May 18, 2016, TomBoleware wrote: So are many other words that require faith.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
This is kind of funny.
Oliver's piece noted that science stuff can be checked, but there isn't any money in that, so it is not. He urged that the replication step of the scientific method NOT be ignored (if I am recalling correctly). Faith stuff, BECAUSE it is faith stuff, CAN'T be replicated. Because it is faith stuff. |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
I have so much respect for stoneunhinged. I know he is not a religious person, and yet he advocates for values beyond the objective and material and he shows courtesy to people of faith. The T.S. Eliot allusions are also much appreciated!
Quote:
When one wants unambiguous, object answers, one turns to science. We are completely in agreement on that point. Admittedly, not only science but faith and philosophy have also been misrepresented and popularized and commercialized.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2016, Steve_Mollett wrote: Depends on which scientific method you are observing. The neanderthal scientific method has its merits, no? Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
What exactly is the Neanderthal scientific method?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On May 26, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: I was trying to point out that one cannot compare old and ancient mystical and spiritual verities with modern scientific explorations of reality. Conversely, one cannot compare modern spiritual explorations of reality with old and ancient scientific approaches (hence the neanderthal reference ) We should be comparing "modern" scientific explorations and methods with "modern" spiritual and mystical methods and frameworks. Religious and scientific explanations of reality work in parallel through an evolving process. Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On May 18, 2016, R.S. wrote: I would add that no science "with ethics" equals no progress. Science in and of itself can equal regress if a qualitative value system is not employed. Today that value system revolves around a "world embracing vision" framework.... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On May 26, 2016, kambiz wrote: I would say that there is only one "scientific method" - not an "old" method and a "new/modern" method. If it involves observation, accumulation of data, testing, replication, etc., then it's science. Period. What's the difference between "old spiritual exploration" and "modern spiritual explorations"? What do you even mean by "spiritual"? Quote:
We should be comparing "modern" scientific explorations and methods with "modern" spiritual and mystical methods and frameworks. What's to compare? By definition one of those methods (science) relies on objective facts and evidence and one does not. And only one of those methods is open to revision. The other cannot "evolve" and offer new and objective "explanations of reality". Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On May 27, 2016, kambiz wrote: Obviously, the application of knowledge gained through science is a different matter than the acquiring of the knowledge in the first place. The ability to split the atom can be both beneficial (via nuclear energy) and harmful (via weapons). But it took science to obtain that knowledge in the first place. Value systems and ethics are seldom universally agreed upon. As a society, we collectively determine those for ourselves. What do you mean by a "world embracing vision"? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Here we go.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote: for some reason brought up a hypothetical subspecies of humanity that's no longer around.
On May 26, 2016, kambiz wrote: Similarly those seeking to know about "what is" are keen to distinguish between what the best working model can predict accurately and where a better model would be handy. It's not a rejection of mystical or spiritual experience so much as retreat from presuming upon the vanity of others. Look at how Newton phrased his three principles about motion or how he described the phenomenon of gravity. Smallest possible number of assertions about "what is" that yields the greatest useful predictive power. Here's Newton's book with this model of how to describe things that move link page 83.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Quote:
On May 27, 2016, R.S. wrote: Hi Ron, Apologies for responding so late. I think my thinking revolved around the scientific method pre-Athens was not one of "observation, accumulation of data, testing, replication, etc". Surely the modern scientific method was not practiced by those observing reality and trying to explain it 5000 years ago? And surely todays scientific method may be lacking too when scientists look back on today 5000 years from now? Maybe this link can clarify what I am trying to put forward: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_scientific_method Quote:
What's the difference between "old spiritual exploration" and "modern spiritual explorations"? What do you even mean by "spiritual"? By "spiritual" I am intending those human qualities that are needed to contribute towards an advancing community, and ultimately, an advancing world. Quote:
What's to compare? By definition one of those methods (science) relies on objective facts and evidence and one does not. And only one of those methods is open to revision. The other cannot "evolve" and offer new and objective "explanations of reality". I think it is important that this conflict between "Athens" and "Jerusalem" be revised. I think something is lost when the "Athenian-only" approach to exploring reality and truth is adopted, eliminating all of the Jerusalem related explorations of reality. Let us consider the others approaches.... Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
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