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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Problem with repeating shows with the main clients watching each repeat (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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plainman007
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When a client wants you to perform a series of shows in a day. Say its a small entertainment park and they want your stage appearance there but were asking if you would do 3 or 4 shows continuously. Now this might be a client trying to extract the maximum or expecting that bulk means they could get a cheaper deal for themselves. Secondly it kind of belittles the original appearance and takes away from its value (i feel, I might be wrong though) and also for a show relying on heavy psychology its not adviseable to repeat the show multiple times in a day, unless ofcourse I take 3 different acts with me. They will think a performer coming in can anyway do 3 more repeats and it wont cost much Smile. I would want to charge them 3 times as much but clients never get that logic into their heads.

When I perform auditoriums with my own exclusive productions I have actually done 6 shows a day without a problem where only the ushers get to see the show repeatedly. But here is a situation where the key players/clients (the ones who are actually paying for the show) will be present for all the repeats that too on the same day. So what I feel will happen is that the client will end up ruining their own impression, 1 by seeing the same presentation it gets old for them, 2 its technically not good either to allow repeat viewings. These are the people you want more impressed than the audience. So how would you handle such a request considering the various angles ive mentioned.

In 35 years of performing I have come to understand that more than the audience, you need to impress the key people who actually fork out the budgets. Now matter what you impress the audience with if the key producer of the show is not impressed then its not productive. Example: say you manufactured the best baby diapers, will you aim to impress the baby or the parents who buy them ?. Ive seen this happen during some shows where the audience is floored, but the client is not, because the imbecile insisted in standing around backstage or due to some performing situations gets to know some operative methods (you probably asked them for certain provisions in the rider and they co-ordinate this for you and then put 2 & 2 together) and are so childish to feel let down because its not REAL MAGIC even though the audience LOVED the show. But unfortunately its not that audience that will be repeat booking the act but this dullard.

Ive had situations of such bird brained clients telling my team members that "hey I think I know how that thing is being done" without understanding that they have become part producers of the show. Do you think THE MIRAGE staff/producers don't know where the tiger disappears to in Siegfried & Roys show. The whole theater is rigged with their knowledge and cant be avoided. It takes a level of technical maturity for a backstage member/producer to understand that we arent working real magic here.

So to get back to the main question at hand. What would you do for a clients request which might jeopardize the 'MAGIC' in their minds.

PS: Kindly pardon the long post.
Mindpro
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Great post and insights. I would strongly agree that it is the the host, booker, buyer that you need to impress the most since they are the true client and the one paying for you. usually I have found if they are pleased, entertained and blown away, the audience will be as well. So yes, that is the goal.

I would suggest either doing different shows or varying the materials you use in your show. For example if one show you are using playing cards for an effect, in the next show use post cards, and in another show perhaps animal cards, collectible (sports, etc.) cards, number cards, or Clue cards, etc. Same effect but using different accessories (if possible) so the outcome appears different each time.

Also after 35 years you should certainly have an arsenal of effects you can do and alternate to offer what looks like a fresh show each time, with maybe one or two signature effects in each performance (than can have different results each time).

Amusement park workers, tourist performers/venues and street performers often are faced with the similar situations. Just a few quick thoughts.
charliecheckers
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I believe the only reason to mix up the show is if there is a high number of people repeating the viewing and it will affect the way they react during the subsequent shows. Personally, I would not concern myself with the client, with respect to repeat content. A professional running an entertainment park would likely know that it is not about them and would be much more focused on audience reaction, your relatability to the audience, your promptness, your dependability and overall professionalism rather than their own deminishing returns on personal entertainment value.

These types of performing dynamics happen all the time at fairs, festivals, parks, Perhaps some effects (or even shows) may not lend themselves to this working environment.i do think your offering has to align with their overall needs.
cheesewrestler
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The client hired you to entertain the audience, right? If you succeed in entertaining the audience, that's all that counts. If a client decided to not hire you again because you entertained the audience but you didn't entertain HIM, that would be incredibly unprofessional.
Blair Marshall
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When I've worked mall shows (up to 7-8 shows in a day) the shows were always exactly the same (for a reason). Management was watching both the size of the crowd and the reaction of the crowd, not the show, they had already seen that.

I'm not sure why your "small entertainment park" is an exception to the rule that all the majors do with their production shows, Disney, Six Flags...they don't want the shows to be different. (Same material, same quality, same length, same energy etc.)

One of my selling points was that my shows would be exactly the same. I'm assuming this park has other attractions, food vendors etc. I doubt the park would want folks parking themselves in front of your stage and staying there for 3 or more shows. (If they were different some folks would actually do this.) They want folks to circulate. After the second show being the same, most would not stay for a third.

Blair
Blair Marshall
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And as a follow-up, what if you do change up your material and it falls flat at that particular show and your client is there. Then what?

Blair
Ray Pierce
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I agree with Blair. The only thing I might change from show to show would be anything requiring a force. I always mix those up on a regular basis just in case people see more than one show.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
plainman007
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Quote:
On May 26, 2016, charliecheckers wrote:
A professional running an entertainment park would likely know that it is not about them


Unfortunately they don't. They want to appease themselves also in the process and ive noticed this happening a few times. Also I remember reading here on the forum a few years ago from a working mentalist who was asked for a refund because "there was hardly any/minimal equipment used" for the show. There are clients who are that shallow. This is also proven because they pick acts that THEY LIKE, not what the audience likes.

Ive seen clients getting impressed by a particular category of illusion and saying it would be nice to see more of such illusions. Like as if the general audience wanted to see all of that category only. Ive also seen clients requesting to change the illusions in a show ("can something else be done"), its very apparent from the way they say itself that its BECAUSE they are getting tired of the same stuff and wanted to see something new, but they will speak as if they were speaking for the audience.
plainman007
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Quote:
On May 26, 2016, Blair Marshall wrote:
When I've worked mall shows (up to 7-8 shows in a day) the shows were always exactly the same (for a reason). Management was watching both the size of the crowd and the reaction of the crowd, not the show, they had already seen that.

I'm not sure why your "small entertainment park" is an exception to the rule that all the majors do with their production shows, Disney, Six Flags...they don't want the shows to be different. (Same material, same quality, same length, same energy etc.)


This post is about clients that don't maintain these ethics, so no use referring to the ones that do. SUBLIMINALLY they think its part of your job to keep them enthralled too always. This works on the same psychology as when people ask a magician how its done, thinking it would make them happier to know, then its all so simple and the magic is destroyed in their minds. They ask so that they can appreciate how clever the method is not realizing it will do quite the contrary. Same way this is a subliminal desire that is counter productive to the show.

"small entertainment park" as in just a few acres compared to the larger parks/auditoriums shows (own productions) ive worked with. Lets not get very nitpicky, you get the idea I'm sure or you can call it the venue if that suits you. I don't work malls so I wouldn't know how they worked.
plainman007
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Quote:
On May 26, 2016, cheesewrestler wrote:
The client hired you to entertain the audience, right? If you succeed in entertaining the audience, that's all that counts. If a client decided to not hire you again because you entertained the audience but you didn't entertain HIM, that would be incredibly unprofessional.


What you say is precisely true. In my case ive not faced someone not booking my illusion act on this basis but I do see the attitude of "can we have/try something new Smile". They subliminally want to be entertained with something new, thinking that the joy they get from that translates to an addition in the audience experience of the already postive experience they are having. WRONG.
plainman007
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Quote:
On May 26, 2016, Blair Marshall wrote:
And as a follow-up, what if you do change up your material and it falls flat at that particular show and your client is there. Then what?

Blair


Exactly ! I totally agree and we should know well that a honed act which is working well better be left alone. Trying to fix what aint broken isn't exactly the best route to go.
TomBoleware
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Sounds to me like you may need to level with them and explain that the ‘tricks’ to the magic has little to do with it.
Let them know your an ‘entertainer’ and not a miracle worker. Maybe use the old joke, “any 9 year old child with 20 years
experience can do what I do.”

Drop the ego with the secrets and put being an entertainer first.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

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Mindpro
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Depends if he wants to lose the account.
TomBoleware
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Trying to convince a client that you are a ‘real’ miracle worker only demands more proof and does nothing but belittles them.
Good luck with that.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 27, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:
Trying to convince a client that you are a ‘real’ miracle worker only demands more proof and does nothing but belittles them.
Good luck with that.

Tom


Yea this. Yea.

Tom hits on the solution in his 2 posts. Communicating with the client is essential. I mean if they think you are going to do different illusions every show that is delusional.

In the end sell what you do, not what the client wants to think you can do. This sort of client seems to be an excption to the rule. Usually for traffic flow readings they WANT all the shows to be the same so different people can see them at different times. It is intentional and part of the business model. Small or not this is generally the theory used so they don't have the whole park waiting to see the same thing.

Ib really wouldn't change a thing.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
plainman007
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On top of this are the "IMBECILE" clients who come with fantastic pipe dream concepts. Wanting a truck to vanish (i actually had this enquiry). Then when he heard that it needs transport, specialized equipment and a huge team to present it, he was like WTH, the truck is already here, you just need to perform with it right ?

So 'delusional' as mentioned above that theres no point even talking to those guys. He is from an experienced event management company that too. He thought ill travel with a suitcase and leave my team and infra behind, just bring along the wizard wand !

And heres the best part, when is the event date ?, THREE DAYS AWAY ! And hes looking for grand scale illusion design !
Dannydoyle
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Obviously you have to work in reality.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
plainman007
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Quote:
On May 27, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Obviously you have to work in reality.


Didn't quite get that ? As in ?
Mindpro
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This brings up a very significant area in our entertainment business - laymen in the position of hiring, booking and/or directing entertainment. This happens regularly, more so in some performance markets than others, but when you have regular people (non-industry or professionals) in a position of control in either booking or production of entertainment this happens. We see it all the time in the festival market, school committees, fundraising, or any other performance market where there is a volunteer committee or position. Especially today with cutbacks and double duty employees, staffers and volunteers.

These can be the most difficult (and pain in the **s) people and gigs to deal with. They have false or unrealistic views and expectations. The other problem is some low-end performers accommodate them, then they therefore expect others to as well.

As some have said here communication and I will add, education is key. The are not insiders and in reality they should not be in charge or control of entertainment. More so not the entertainers. Of course where trade secrets become involved such as in magic or mentalism, it becomes an even deeper issue.

Some people, depending on their choice of performance markets, never have to deal with this, others it can be more common and frequent that most realize.

This is much different than say the kids party market where you are only dealing with a lay parent(s), as these people in some of these other markets (mentioned above) have position and authority to have some say and control over the venue or event.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 27, 2016, plainman007 wrote:
Quote:
On May 27, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
Obviously you have to work in reality.


Didn't quite get that ? As in ?


As in no way to do what he wants in 3 days.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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