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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Problem with repeating shows with the main clients watching each repeat (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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plainman007
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2016, Mindpro wrote:
I'd say your p*esho* needs some work. If its that visible that management or even audience members realize whats happening it's not happening very well. This almost seems like its making you a bit paranoid. Mentalism can be different than magic, repeatable magic can be expected. But mentalism becomes more suspect. I would drop any need for p*esho*.



No, there was no better or concealed way to do it. Audience members never notice. This is not during the show either. Also each venue dictates different needs for this kind of work. Its easy to say my p*esho* needs work. I don't wanna name anyone but google (i hope ull know the words to use in laymans terms to come up with it) it up and you'll see audience members and show reviewers writing in detail (in laymans words) about it during shows staged by some of the top most names in mentalism. That too the specators detailed the entire process. I wouldnt blame the performer as you so hastily did. Maybe that was a situation which had no other option. P*esho* is not something that can be 100% unnoticed in ALL venues. During my auditorium performances none of this happens.
Mindpro
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I'm just saying if the management is catching on to it, simply don't do p*esho*. That eliminates or prevents that concern.
Bill Hegbli
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How about you have all your clients sign a "Nondisclosure Agreement" for anything they see or hear concerning your show. Simply, explain, as they will be present, they will be repeatedly exposed to your methods, and are to keep that totally, to themselves, and secret. Penalties for exposing your methods written in the agreement.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
thomasR
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On Jul 15, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
The norm by the way in hotels and cruise ships IS repeatability. Most hotels are on a weekly cycle with food and beverage and entertainment. They WANT dependability and consistency. Amusement parks WANT shows that are the same every day generally and multiple times a day.

These just seem like such odd problems.


This is an extremely important point to make. If you get a multiple show gig, it's a good idea to ask the client what they desire. They may want the exact show repeated, they may want each show to be completely different, they may not care as long as you "do that trick with the lemon" in each show, or they may not care at all. This is a good question to ask the client, and then both of you have the same expectations going in.
Dannydoyle
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It is not a good question to ask a client. It is a question that will reveal that you know quite little about the market you arev in. How is that a good thing? It shows that you know almost nothing of industry standards and would not give me any confidence in hiring you.

This is the difference in experience performing and reading about it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I agree. You are a professional that should understand professional situations. Why go there and present and option or either or choice and allow them to determine that? If they bring such a thing up at the time of negotiation, then its fine to address it, if not you are a professional being hired to work a professional market with your professional services. You want maintain control of what you offer and provide.
thomasR
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I work mostly with small corporate events, city festivals, and fairs. Typically my contact is an employee of the organization helping to plan the event, or a member of the Fair board, a volunteer. These people do not know industry standards and like to talk about options. I like to cover details like this ahead of time so there are no surprises on the day of the event.
Dannydoyle
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Most people on those boards know industry standards. They know exactly what they are hiring.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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In my experience, some do and some don't.
When being booked for one show, or multiple shows, I try to make it clear to the client exactly what they are getting. I've never had a client upset that I went over too much info. I've never once had a client say "this is industry standard, why are you bringing this up."

Your mileage may vary.
Mindpro
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What is your book-back ratio?
thomasR
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Are you suggesting that I wouldn't be re-booked for an event based on me asking if they expect the same show duplicated throughout the event?

I'm not saying this is a question that should always be asked. By all means if you don't think it is appropriate at your level, don't ask the question.
When being booked for multiple shows, many times the question comes up from the client.


Last year it was 30% What's yours?
Dannydoyle
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I thought you told us you didn't perform magic?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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I don't. Did I say that I did?

I produce theatrical circus and variety performances for events. Been in business since 2007.
Dannydoyle
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So naturally you do a different circus show every time.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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ThomasR, I actually meant to be asking that question of the OP, not you, sorry.
thomasR
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Quote:
On Jul 16, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote:
So naturally you do a different circus show every time.


Is this supposed to be sarcastic? (Legitimate question... impossible to tell online).

Yes absolutely we change up the show when asked, it's a very frequent request. We also perform the exact same show for the entire length of the event when asked.
Change up the show is pretty simple... the aerialist performs a fabric act instead of Lyra. The juggler always has a few different acts (contact juggling, balls, club routine).

A larger event that has a show and strolling entertainment we can rotate in different performers. Say 5 perform the show while the other 2 are doing strolling sets. That keeps the show and the strolling entertainment changing.
thomasR
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Quote:
On Jul 16, 2016, Mindpro wrote:
ThomasR, I actually meant to be asking that question of the OP, not you, sorry.


Makes sense. Smile

I am curious to know.. in what areas do you see it being "not professional" to ask whether a client expects that repeat shows change or stay exactly the same. Even within bigger companies like Disney I see this differ from act to act. Some of the acts Disney contracts perform the exact same act every single time, others change it up each performance. (I'm talking about the 3rd party variety acts). Does Disney ask for one or the other? Do they care? Who knows! But if I was hired by Disney ( big IF I know...) I would think the question would be relevant.
Mindpro
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I have not worked for Disney, so Ray be be better to answer that, but I have performed at Disney venues and have been referred by them and I can tell you that when they refer me they are doing so based on my show that they've seen and know. Please see the thread here in Tricky Busindss titled "Do The Material On Your Video Demo!" For much of the same reasoning offered in that thread, I think it's important to do the material that they have based booking/hiring you based upon.

Unless a client specifically states they want several different shows or to mix them up a bit, I would just operate from my professional position of this is my show, this is what they know or are aware of enough to book me, that is what I will do. I don't need guidance to do what I'm skilled at doing. Now also as a performer if I look out and see a lot of return attendees coming to show second or third shows it is a call I would make then and there. I too have worked fairs, festivals and similar events for years and I never had a problem with that, whether it was a multi-show run over a week or ten days, multi-shows per day, or return bookings year after year. It was my show that generated that relationship and that will be what I continue to offer. As I said I may switch something up here or there or as Ray mentioned change interchangeable elements (he mentioned forces for example), but the show itself as a whole remains primarily the same and in tact.

I do agree with you that some municipal events and school events that relay on volunteers or non-professionals can be different from a board of industry professionals. You must take control and educate them as you need them to be. I agree doing this in advance prevents problems or situations coming up later or being unclear at or near showtime. I always try to find out why they have booked me, as often they will tell you about their reasons, certain aspects of your show or other reasons that were their deciding factors so you can always keep these in mind as you approach your performance content.

Some of the things I regularly hear is "I loved that (certain bit, routine or segment," or "We like how you include so many more audience members in your show that anyone else" (I have used 60-80 on stage guests at some performances before, for smaller shows 20-30), they may have seem me on some media (t.v. shows) or at another event - "we saw you perform at our national convention and it was the best show we ever had there." These types of things can be very telling and allow me some insight into expectation without actually asking them or giving them the opportunity to have any input in my performance(s).
Dannydoyle
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Yea people may not be "professional" talent buyers or what not. But isn't that why they hire us?

Yes take control and educate them. That is the key.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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