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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Penny for your thoughts Ľ Ľ Can you be a magician and mentalist?? (127 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rhu
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A juggler, possibly a bad juggler?
Stunninger
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Quote:
On May 24, 2019, Rhu wrote:
Possibly a bad juggler?


Funny Smile
jonnyboy
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Iíve never weighed in on this topic before, finding it rather tiresome to argue about, but am chiming in here to relate a very recent incident that I believe is illustrative of some of the issues. I was speaking with someone who wanted to book me for a high-end birthday celebration in Newport Beach, a very expensive enclave on Californiaís coast. I spoke with the host, and asked about the relative makeup of the party goers. She said there would be all adults, except for a few youngsters under 5 years old. I told her that the very young might be a little restless, as I didnít perform as a magician, and there were not colorful and outsized props that children like. She said, no problem, and that they could keep them entertained elsewhere while I performed as a mentalist for the assemblage. I thought all was well and sent my booking agreement. When I hadnít heard back in a few days, I contacted her, and she said that they had decided instead to go with someone who would do kidís magic and mentalism in the same show. I donít know who they hired, but it is hard for me to think that this person will present hippity hop rabbits, breakaway wand, magic coloring book, and in the same show, perform mentalism in a manner with an appropriate level of believability and mystery that doesnít appear to just be magic tricks.

This isnít to say that someone canít do magic and mentalism. But to be taken seriously as a professional mentalist, do you really want to be doing kidís magic in the same show, with the same persona? How do you properly establish credibility as either? Go from Silly Billy to Max Maven in the space of the same performance? I think you would, of necessity, be shortchanging at least one of these aspects, and most likely both.
Mindpro
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On May 25, 2019, jonnyboy wrote:
Iíve never weighed in on this topic before, finding it rather tiresome to argue about


There really isn't an argument or real debate on this. It really is quite simple - mentalists know and get this completely, end of story. Those that see this as an argument, personal preference or some kind of debate are simply magicians attempting to justify their own beliefs and wants.

As you clearly show here, the current landscape often lumps mentalism with magic and as part of magic, which causes great damage and of course greatly discredits actual mentalism. What happened here was a magician (who also does mentalism convinced her it was all the same and sure, quite possible to have magic and mentalism for the kids (while discrediting down the actual art of mentalism in the process, all of course for personal gain, without any regard to the actual industry.) This is just more of the continuation of the trivialization of mentalism at its best.

Sorry to hear of your loss.
jonnyboy
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Exactly, Mindpro. Not upset about the individual loss loss to me, but rather to what it portends for the future of mentalism. Anything for a buck and lack of respect for the art and other artists, whether that art is being a kidís magician (and boy, is that an art) or mentalism.
Paul V
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I see the argument from both sides, I feel Magic & Mentalism are different. Mainly in the way they are presented.

I personally use both within the same performance when doing Close Up work, I start with magic and either at the end of my set or later if thereís still time left Iíll present Mentalism. In my personal opinion I agree that Mentalism should be presented properly to keep the mystery but I donít feel mixing it with magic is a bad thing or discredits it or makes mentalism less believable if done properly. For instance I did a house party a couple of months ago. I started of with some magic, then for the last part I did mentalism.

After finishing my last Magic effect / trick I said ď we all know Magic isnít real, itís basically cheating isnít it?! but itís fun and I think we can all agree here that its nice and exciting to escape reality for a little while ď, ď before I go though, I would like to share something with you all that not even I can explain, and to be honest with you, it doesnít always work, especially when Iím feeling tired. Letís all take a deep breath in, what I want you all to do, if you can, is to clear your mind for me ( then proceed to go into the mentalism).

I feel that because I played down the magic ( letís be honest most Laymen donít actually believe magicians are super human or gods, especially where Iím from ) when presented the mentalism their expectations and reactions elevated compared to what Iíve done in the past which was just doing one style of entertainment. I probably discredited the magic slightly but during them experiencing the magic they enjoyed it a lot but by no means do they think itís real, few and far between in my experience.

At the end they thanked me for giving them variety, they enjoyed the magic, they were fooled and finished off by saying ď how you knew what people were thinking or how you knew things ahead of time was completely incredible!Ē

The point Iím making from my perspective and experience only is, I feel if you set the premise of what it is youíre doing, it will be taken however you want it to be by the people around you and the reason I mix the two is simply because when started to do gigs, I decided I wanted to give people variety and didnít feel that I should have pick magician or mentalist. I think each to their own but I will honestly say that if you mix both that there needs to be that important shift between the two. I feel most people believe Mentalism is a lot more believable than Magic is and thatís how I present both together.

Iím showing you magic and Iím cheating, but now letís get serious for a minute for this to work. Thatís what I feel I portray when performing

Thanks,
Paul
hotjacket
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My experience is that learning both magic and mentalism tends to send you broke twice as fast Smile

Seriously though, I had to give away magic to a large degree, as my mentalism incorporates a large degree of cold reading ... and I never want to be categorized as someone doing a "trick" (if anyone ever says this, I know I've done a poor job).
Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2019, Paul V wrote:
Iím showing you magic and Iím cheating, but now letís get serious for a minute for this to work. Thatís what I feel I portray when performing


To be frank, folks are generally polite but not gullible.
.


.
Paul V
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On Jul 23, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2019, Paul V wrote:
Iím showing you magic and Iím cheating, but now letís get serious for a minute for this to work. Thatís what I feel I portray when performing


To be frank, folks are generally polite but not gullible.


Exactly my point, if you perform magic alone. Virtually everyone witnessing it will not believe itís real ( unless theyíre a child ). People who witness Mentalism / Mind Reading havenít got the faintest idea of how itís accomplished, if itís real or not. They can have many theories on both but I feel Mentalism is more believable simply because of 2 things, thereís no sleight of hand thatís linked with it in the laymenís eyes ( with Propless itís completely undetectable) & with quite a high number of people being obsessed with psychicís and similar, you could very well be categorised automatically as the real deal in their eyes ( not that I ever claim to be psychic ) I love both, I love variety & ive never had any issues with mixing them together.
Lior
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I have combined magic in of my corporate mentalism show
and ther is no problem at all.
I use the magic to deliver a message about the company
I work for.
If you know how to explain the difference then there is
no problem at all.

You can even combine music and mentalisem or
any other hobby that you have

Lior
Talk To The Screen. The best effect for professionals
http://www.theliortouch.com

The Invisble touches , spoon bending, PK combinations
8 loops from Yigal Mesika http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8161

Penguin Live lecture http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7645
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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Penny for your thoughts Ľ Ľ Can you be a magician and mentalist?? (127 Likes)
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