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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Can you be a magician and mentalist?? (127 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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mastermindreader
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Is this the "super memory" demonstration that Slim proclaims is not mentalism?

MagicalEducator
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, Howie Diddot wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 4, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:


Joe,

I'm not sure that you can make claims that I "...haven't truly studied mentalism" since you don't actually know my background.

jeff


Magical Educator, who are you?

My question to my fellow magician’s on the Café is, does anyone know who Magical Educator is?

Lots of members on the Café have no identifying information and are anonymous, but they are not making judgements and posting comments on expertise as you do.

I do not post in this forum, I read and learn, when mastermindreader posts a comment. or shares advice, I read it very carefully and learn from him; I know who he is and I take his post very seriously

You have posted that "I'm not sure that you can make claims that I ...haven't truly studied mentalism since you don't actually know my background".

Perhaps you might post a video of your performance so we all might see an example of your work. You might also consider posting some of your achievements and credentials so that we might be better able to critique a fellow performer.

Magical Educator, the random and subjective comments that you have posted on the Café don't really mean very much and I am looking forward to seeing your work.


Howie,

Thanks for your interest in my work but once again your comments are off topic and don't discuss the merits (or not) of my argument. I sent you a message with a link to a thread. You may not know about my work but I do know about your thoughts on hang mentalism to pick up girls. Check it out:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=15

Jeff
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
Check out my column
"Magic is Education" @
www.VanishMagazine.com
Slim King
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Exactly!!! When asked after the show how many will say Card Trick and how many will say Super Memory Experiment when describing the show. I'm pretty sure that 4 out of 5 people would respond Trick when given the word Card. It's just how it is. IMHO most people would see this as a magic card trick and would describe it as such. But that doesn't bother me because I feel you can do both magic and mentalism.
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
mastermindreader
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And you'd be utterly wrong. That demonstration has been accepted as genuine by the vast majority of audiences.You are aware, are you not, that I also perform it with straight memory? The only difference is that the routine is about a half minute longer, and the cadence on the call-outs is regular rather than accelerating.

Get back to me when you know what you're talking about.
M. Tesla
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Exactly!!! When asked after the show how many will say Card Trick and how many will say Super Memory Experiment when describing the show. I'm pretty sure that 4 out of 5 people would respond Trick when given the word Card. It's just how it is. IMHO most people would see this as a magic card trick and would describe it as such. But that doesn't bother me because I feel you can do both magic and mentalism.


You're missing the point...it's about memorizing the order of a deck of cards in under 20 seconds...it's more in line with mentalism than magic, and it's not being presented as a card trick...it's being presented as a memory demonstration...and I've done the effect myself and never had anyone even remotely suspect it's anything other than mentalism and memory...
While the amount of water has remained static, the amount of Tequila and Triple Sec available for making Margaritas has expanded enormously. So you see, we have made progress after all. ~Anonymous
IAIN
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, mastermindreader wrote:
Get back to me when you know what you're talking about.


i think the earth is due to expire in 14 billion years time, I don't think that's long enough...
M. Tesla
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Ahhhh Smile Bob beat me to the punch...I guess we were typing at the same time and he's faster than me...
While the amount of water has remained static, the amount of Tequila and Triple Sec available for making Margaritas has expanded enormously. So you see, we have made progress after all. ~Anonymous
Decomposed
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Exactly!!! When asked after the show how many will say Card Trick and how many will say Super Memory Experiment when describing the show. I'm pretty sure that 4 out of 5 people would respond Trick when given the word Card. It's just how it is. IMHO most people would see this as a magic card trick and would describe it as such. But that doesn't bother me because I feel you can do both magic and mentalism.


Maybe in Florida they know what mentalism is Slim. From my neck of the woods they have no clue unless they were hooked on the Mentalist series until it was cut. You promote yourself as a mentalist for the on line window shopper GIGers and you may not get a lot of bookings. Book as a magician (and sub as a mentalist) and convince your clients you are mentalist one fairs better IMO.
MagicalEducator
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, M. Tessler wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, Slim King wrote:
Exactly!!! When asked after the show how many will say Card Trick and how many will say Super Memory Experiment when describing the show. I'm pretty sure that 4 out of 5 people would respond Trick when given the word Card. It's just how it is. IMHO most people would see this as a magic card trick and would describe it as such. But that doesn't bother me because I feel you can do both magic and mentalism.


You're missing the point...it's about memorizing the order of a deck of cards in under 20 seconds...it's more in line with mentalism than magic, and it's not being presented as a card trick...it's being presented as a memory demonstration...and I've done the effect myself and never had anyone even remotely suspect it's anything other than mentalism and memory...


I also do some card memory work but how do we know for sure that our audiences don't think that it's a card trick? I present it as memory and like to think I do a good job at acting, miscalling and such but how do we know for sure. Simple word association...Donald....Trump....Milk..shake...Card...trick. Not really a leap at all when we look at a bit more objectively. If one has applied the Logical Disconnect or Tamariz's Theory of False Solutions then less liklihood but still possible. People are convinced of all manner of unbelievable explanations.

jeff
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
Check out my column
"Magic is Education" @
www.VanishMagazine.com
M. Tesla
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, M. Tessler wrote:

You're missing the point...it's about memorizing the order of a deck of cards in under 20 seconds...it's more in line with mentalism than magic, and it's not being presented as a card trick...it's being presented as a memory demonstration...and I've done the effect myself and never had anyone even remotely suspect it's anything other than mentalism and memory...


I also do some card memory work but how do we know for sure that our audiences don't think that it's a card trick? I present it as memory and like to think I do a good job at acting, miscalling and such but how do we know for sure. Simple word association...Donald....Trump....Milk..shake...Card...trick. Not really a leap at all when we look at a bit more objectively. If one has applied the Logical Disconnect or Tamariz's Theory of False Solutions then less liklihood but still possible. People are convinced of all manner of unbelievable explanations.

jeff


Well, sometimes their reactions give you a clue...their reaction to it as a card trick, would seem to me (IMHO), to be a bit different than their reaction to it as mentalism and memory...it's just a feeling you get as to whether they believe in your psychic abilities...
While the amount of water has remained static, the amount of Tequila and Triple Sec available for making Margaritas has expanded enormously. So you see, we have made progress after all. ~Anonymous
MagicalEducator
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Old adage to look in the eyes of your audience and they will tell you everything that you need to know about how you're doing. That I do and believe but I don't know that I could successfully discern the differences as each person is so unique. I've had stunned silence, applause, audible gasps, screams, they run away and even where I was punched very hard in the chest. This last one was accompanied by the dialogue "Why did you do that?" (Me) "Cuz you're freaking me out!" (Crazy person)

Jeff
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
Check out my column
"Magic is Education" @
www.VanishMagazine.com
Decomposed
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:
Old adage to look in the eyes of your audience and they will tell you everything that you need to know about how you're doing. That I do and believe but I don't know that I could successfully discern the differences as each person is so unique. I've had stunned silence, applause, audible gasps, screams, they run away and even where I was punched very hard in the chest. This last one was accompanied by the dialogue "Why did you do that?" (Me) "Cuz you're freaking me out!" (Crazy person)

Jeff


Glad someone else sees stunned silence as a positive. It should happen a lot in a mentalist show (as long as snoring does not accompany of course).
mastermindreader
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Too bad folks outside the showroom can't hear "stunned silence."
Decomposed
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But they reflect their true feelings in their reviews. Smile


If you don't regularly get asked "about your gift, or where did you get your gift," stick with magician.
Howie Diddot
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:

Joe,

I'm not sure that you can make claims that I "...haven't truly studied mentalism" since you don't actually know my background.

jeff


Quote:
On Jun 5, 2016, Howie Diddot wrote:

Magical Educator, who are you?

My question to my fellow magician’s on the Café is, does anyone know who Magical Educator is?

Lots of members on the Café have no identifying information and are anonymous, but they are not making judgements and posting comments on expertise as you do.

I do not post in this forum, I read and learn, when mastermindreader posts a comment. or shares advice, I read it very carefully and learn from him; I know who he is and I take his post very seriously

You have posted that "I'm not sure that you can make claims that I ...haven't truly studied mentalism since you don't actually know my background".

Perhaps you might post a video of your performance so we all might see an example of your work. You might also consider posting some of your achievements and credentials so that we might be better able to critique a fellow performer.

Magical Educator, the random and subjective comments that you have posted on the Café don't really mean very much and I am looking forward to seeing your work.


Quote:
On Jun 4, 2016, MagicalEducator wrote:

Howie,

Thanks for your interest in my work but once again your comments are off topic and don't discuss the merits (or not) of my argument. I sent you a message with a link to a thread. You may not know about my work but I do know about your thoughts on hang mentalism to pick up girls. Check it out:Jeff

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......[/quote]



Jeff,

My comments are not off topic, my question is right inline adding to what Joe had commented on and how you replied.


You judge members here, you boast that you are an educator and all you post on the Café is arguments, negative comments and you attempt to come off as superior to all members; you have been a member of the Café since 2003 and you have about 300 posts... not a very active contributor

What educational level have you achieved that qualifies you to ask active members to post videos for you to examine and critique?

I don't know why you would post a link that directs me to a thread that that has no bearing on my question, I don't know why you are PMing me...BTW, in the future don't PM me; just answer the question, who are you and what credentials have you achieved that elevates you to a level of a “magical educator” and post in a manner that conveys that you are superior to everyone here.

Joe in an earlier post made a statement that ' you haven't truly studied mentalism" you replied that "I'm not sure that you can make claims that I "...haven't truly studied mentalism" since you don't actually know my background'.

You are correct, no one knows your background and when you are questioned about your experience, your education or your training, you take great pains to avoid the question, but you want us to read your post and take what you say as authoritative.

Jeff; if the misdirection you attempt in the thread to avoid the question and posting unnecessary links is an indication of the misdirection you have learned in your studies, in my opinion, you should not be dispensing advice on the Café, you should be doing what I do, read the posts, be quiet and learn.

This post ends my communications with you in this thread; I have posted enough in this thread about your lack of credentials, if other members want to continue to post replies to your the random subjective and erroneous facts, at least they have been made aware of your deficiencies and shortcomings.
Decomposed
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Is this the same Jheff who teaches high school in California (magical educator)?
mastermindreader
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On Jun 6, 2016, Decomposed wrote:
Is this the same Jheff who teaches high school in California (magical educator)?


No. Jheff (note the spelling) and MagicalEducator (Jeff) are NOT the same person. Jheff is a well known creator, a member of the Magic Castle, and proprietor of Jheff's Marketplace of the Mind.

He's also my long time friend and business associate.

And, yes, he is a high-school teacher in Los Angeles, California.
mastermindreader
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On Jun 5, 2016, Decomposed wrote:
But they reflect their true feelings in their reviews. Smile


You made this post in response to mine. I have no idea who you are referring to.
IAIN
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For me, its pretty simple...

if you want to be seen as a classic mentalist, and be able to discuss classic mentalism with other classic mentalists - you need to have the same backbone of knowledge, terminology and so on...

if what you perform doesn't fall within those guidelines and framework, then its not classic mentalism...its something else, be it magic, mental magic, bizarrism etc

each require a different mindset and performing criteria...

and if you want to strike off on your own, and follow your vision or whatever you wanna call it, you still need to know that backbone, that structure and knowledge to begin with...

you don't suddenly become a jazz guitarist because you can play flamenco, though the commonality is that you would both have the knowledge of tuning, chords, structure and technique, but its also completely different on many levels too...the attack, the techniques splinter and change...

so until you can play as 'yourself' you need the base knowledge first...

just because hendrix and richie havens both used their thumbs in very similar ways when barring chords, doesn't mean they sound or play the same, and their philosophies are different too...

that's how I see it...
Slim King
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Jeff says..."Donald....Trump....Milk..shake...Card...trick" .. This is an elemental concept that every mentalist should understand!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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