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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Okito box material (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bigfoot
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You know I'm going to have to disagree with that no new moves statement. I've been in this business for almost fifty years and I've seen a lot of stuff come and go. Certainly there are others here who have been around longer but that's still a long time Smile

The ideas he has on the double sides coins alone are new concepts. The box switches I'm pretty sure are new ideas as well though I would admit that "some" are based on other sleights but this does not mean they are not new ideas. He fully explains in the video that one is an adaptation of a Sol Stone idea which also is obviously a credit which as William pointed out he does do a lot of.

I've noticed that no one has mentioned that he teaches the sleights he uses in the routines separately which gives a very in depth and up close understanding of them so that when you get to the routines it's easier to understand or at least that's how it seemed to me. Does he use old standard moves? That would be a yes. Does he have twists on some of them? That would be a yes. His use on the Gallo pitch idea is certainly interesting especially how he gets into it.

As I've said one of the routines I am fond of is called No Table Required which is a routine that is fully done in the hands that can be done surrounded and it has some really fresh thinking behind it. It is built on subletly nearly as much as it is any sleights. The fact that it is performed this way I think makes it a new idea alone.

Up until now coin box work has been done sitting because of the need of the lap in a lot of the routines. If you watch the Spell Bind Box (?) you will see how ditching in the lap can be replaced just using the box itself

I have got two other products from J. Burk Whittaker in the past and they were both worth my time. He is not anonymous his name is on his products and it's also on his website. So Tyler Rabbit was close he just didn't take the time to really remember his name.
tyler_rabbit
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2016, bigfoot wrote:
I have got two other products from J. Burk Whittaker in the past and they were both worth my time. He is not anonymous his name is on his products and it's also on his website. So Tyler Rabbit was close he just didn't take the time to really remember his name.


Ok there it is! I saw it on his site, and then it was gone, now it appears to be back. I could be completely and utterly mistaken though! (Also, at my old age its difficult to remember names I only see once or twice. I'd never make it as a mentalist.) the site's title does say Anonymous Man Studio's.. I mainly know him as Allmagicy who posts critical but relatively polite and informed comments on my YT channel and then sent me a solicitiation via email without introducing himself.

Guess my initial point was: anonymity is cool for purposes of artistic creation but not so much for internet commenting and marketing.. but like I said: whatever; it's all good.

Well (even mild) controversy sells. Guess I need to buy these here instructional downloads, dust off the O-box, and cast my 2 cents.
bigfoot
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Hey Tyler I want to say that if that came off harsh I really didn't mean it to be. I really didn't notice until I just read that again and realized that there was probably a better way to say it. I do apologize.
tyler_rabbit
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All good Mr. Foot!!!
Watching vol 1 now....
taller8
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I wish he'd list what are actually in each download, or did I miss something?

One or Two. Hmmm
taller8
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Can someone who owns these tell me what exactly is in download 1 and 2
I find it rather odd that he doesn't list what is in each download. Weird.
taller8
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I just downloaded both Vol 1 and 2.

I've just watched Vol 1 but I can tell that this is an EXCELLENT Download.

One of the best downloads I've ever bought. Well taught, well photographed, with a nice variety of moves.

Highly recommended

I'm defiitely going to check out his other offerings.
mindpirate
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I'll be posting a review for both Vol. 1 and 2 soon.
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I have been working on this stuff for a while now and I won one of the boxes he uses on eBay.
I started doing the "one coin routine" just for some friends and it kills.
I thought that it was a simple routine but people don't see the ending coming. Great routine.
tonsofquestions
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Are the boxes he uses special in some way? Which ones?
New User
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Well yes and no. He does a lot with regular boxes but he also has ideas with other boxes too. He uses a variety of boxes throughout the download in fact I believe he performs with one and teaches with an other a couple times. When I said I got one that he used I meant the style he used.
It seems almost like he might be creating almost like a digital encyclopedia on coin box work.
Chuck Finley
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I decided I would give a breakdown of what is in each volume of Coin Box Concepts. This will be focused on volume number one. I will do volume number two on its own.

I am going to include some thoughts that I had along the way as well. I don’t consider myself the be all, end all expert but I do have a few thoughts about these downloads and I cannot express enough they are only my opinion.That said I am simply doing this so that maybe some might find it helpful.

You will note that there are a number of basic moves that have been taught throughout this video download set. I will say that the people who are new to performing with the Okito coin box will find it handy as they will not have to seek out these moves from other sources in order to learn the material in this set.
One will also note right away that many of the sleights, including the standard and new, are taught separately from routines. This is nice as they are shot close up so that each detail can be stressed; this also saves time during the teaching of the routines later.

1. The Elementary Turnover: this is a very standard turnover that most will know already; It is used now and again throughout several of the routines.

2. Reverse Rollover: this too is a very standard move and just like the Elementary turnover most people will know it. This is used often throughout the series as well.

3. The Illogical Friction Steal: this move is used a lot for many of the routines. I have never seen this used before and when I saw it I was taken in by it. Despite it being slightly illogical it is very subtle. This move has many uses as one will see as they go through both volumes. It allows for some great uses including: the ability to steal a coin from the box to get one ahead and a really nice lid Load called The Illogical Friction Lid Load from volume two. This also has the bonus of being able to be used to load the lid on any hard surface.

4. The Standard Toss Revolve: again a standard move that many will know and it is taught for the sake of having a way to right a box but if you’re anything like me you will replace it with the Short Shot Toss Revolve that is taught in vol. 2.

5. A Coin Switch: this is a nice way to switch one coin for another as you place the lid on the box and leave it on the table. I am sure that this move will find so many uses because it allows you to secretly retain one coin while switching it for another. The best uses for it are the routines called The Black Penny and Triple Transpo where it is used to switch a silver coin for a copper coin or vice versa.

6. The JBW Shootout: this is a great move which allows you to produce a coin from the box sitting on the table without having to load it entirely. This is featured in the routine Not Quite that is one of the promo videos. This can be found on volume 2.

7. The Finger Palm Steal: This is probably the oldest sleight involving the Okito box but there are a few things that have been added that make it a bit more subtle. He discusses the modified finger palm in a bit of detail and what he offers makes sense. His idea with just a slight shift in finger position makes this idea quite a bit more deceptive.

8. The Standard Lid Load: very few box routines have been created that do not use this sleight and as I’ve said many of the standard moves are included in this set this will keep you from having to look elsewhere for them. I think though many will find the Illogical Friction Lid load will take the place of this standard move.

9. The Rollover Vanish: this sleight is used a lot in this series. It is used to vanish a single coin inside of a coin box with its lid in place. This is used to great extent in the One Coin Routine on volume two as well as others. I think this is certainly worth having in your bag of tricks so to say.

10. Table Placement: if you are looking for one of the easiest ways to right an inverted box this might be it. It is used to right the box as it set off to one or the other side on the table.

11. The Simple Coin Box Switch: this is coin box switch that lives up to its name it is very simple but it sets you up for other uses later in places like the Red Bag Holdout (vol. 2) and The Drop Box

12. What Switch: oddly enough the first time I saw this that is exactly what I thought, what switch? The problem is that after it is exposed you won’t believe that is how it was done and you may not have the guts to use it or maybe you will.

13. Illogical Friction Lid Load: this is a fantastic way to secretly steal a coin from the box and load it under the lid. I use this pretty much all the time I can tell you it works and it works very well. You will see that it is used often in this set as well. By using the Momentary Palm from volume two you can make this sleight even better.

14. The Hopswitch Switch: this allows you to switch boxes from a tabled position. It looks as if you are removing the lid and tossing the box forward an inch or so. This is a great one handed coin box switch that you just have to see to really appreciate.

15. The Coin Card Classic: this I am sure was included to get people just starting out to have something to practice the moves on. It is a brief classical routine using an Okito box and a deck of cards. One will note that this is much like a Ken Brooke’s routine but it uses the sleights from the downloads.

16. 4 Out with 5: this routine is a way to make four coins travel from the box and it is a clean method. This truly comes into its own when it is applied to the clear coin box. This is shown in the bonus section in volume 2.

17. Miser's Coin Box: I have noticed this has been mentioned in this thread a few times and for good reason. It is not your typical coin box routine though making the coins travel from the box one by one is normal this one is a bit different.
This is full of some really good subtlety as you produce the coins one by one from the same hand over and over and show it completely empty each time as far as your audience is concerned. There is some really interesting thinking in this especially the visual production of the first coin which looks really magical.

18. Triple Transpo: this is a nice transposition effect that uses a regular coin box and a number of coins. This looks to the audience as if three copper coins switch with three silver coins it takes advantage of Spellbound changes and the sleight called A Coin Switch. It is a pretty effect that does take advantage of classical sleights for a tight routine.

19. The Searchers: this is probably the least impressive idea in the set but it could inspire someone to create a much better routine with it. The routine is basically the location of two selected cards using a copper and silver coin; after the coins find the cards they vanish and return to the box from where they started.

20. Technology: this is a fantastic routine that uses the box that has a hole in it as well as three Chinese coins that are threaded on a ribbon. The coins penetrate off and vanish only to appear in the box one by one. When I watched the first time the first coin vanishing took me by surprise because the subtlety it uses is really good. The use of the three coins on a ribbon in effects like the Charming Chinese Challenge are popular and I think this will appeal to those that do it but that said this is accomplished a bit differently though.

21. Hoo Thru and Thru: I can see this being used on a bar towel at tables in a restaurant. The use of a coin box to penetrate the hand is not new but this takes it to a whole new level. This version of the coins thru hand is more of a full routine rather than just a quick trick. It uses four coins three halves and a Chinese coin with a hole in it, the hole is a big part of the subtleties involved, travel through the hand but during this a few mishaps take place.
While trying to make all the coins penetrate the box: the first time the Chinese coin travels through the box, the other coins, and the hand it is placed back into the box to try again. The second time the halves travel thru the box and hand but the Chinese coin vanishes only to appear under the lid that has been on the table. Finally all the coins travel through hand.
This is a really well thought out routine that takes complete advantage of the set up and it is really subtle as well. When I think of what makes a routine truly good I need quick or instant reset, easy to follow plot, and an engaging effect. This has all that and just because I describe the effect simply this is a real winner of a routine.

22. Benson Meets Okito: Roy Benson made the balls under bowl a classic and is still performed to this day by many pro's. This is a version of the classic using three coins and an Okito box. I found this to be a nice routine that is presented using the Benson idea but it is not one of the easiest to do on the series. I really like this because you get so far ahead of the audience before the routine even starts. One of the things I like in a routine is when an unforeseen event takes place, a coin appearing anywhere but where it is supposed to, but you recover from it and that makes this routine stronger.

23. The Black Penny: this routine is very interesting because of the story that could be told with it. Though he does not go into great detail over the story he gives the basics for what could be a great routine especially for those who like macabre magic.
Three silver coins change places repeatedly with a copper coin, the Black Penny, as the copper is locked away in the box. Each time the copper appears from the box it takes the place of one of the silver coins visually.

24. Just Three Under: This is an interesting idea using the Star coin box and another gimmick that I won’t disclose you will just have to see it for yourself. I will say that this is a one at a time vanish and reproduction of three coins under an inverted coin box. Due to the use of this “nearly forgotten gimmick” it is very clean looking and almost has a challenge type look to it. This idea is expanded on in the second volume in an effect called Star triple travel.

25. The Drop Box: I made this up so that I could mess around with it and I found that it is an idea that would really be great in a set type show. This is no surprise because that is how it is explained for its use. The idea of creating devices out of a deck of cards is not new but this has a few twist that make this a really practical idea. It will let you hold out a coin box you want to ring in from the table or from a pocket plus the handling's which are tipped make this a valuable piece to have ready to go.

Most people will notice that the first volume has more of what might be called standard moves but these are used throughout both volumes and it is nice they are all in one place. The routines that are on here are for the most part really strong, practical as well as commercial. A lot of what is on volume one sets you up for what follows on volume two.
There is a bit of cross over between the two volumes and may seem somewhat incomplete without the other. It does say there will be a volume three at the end of volume number two and I am really interested in this because it seems as if it is building up to better things as you go through the first two.
Chuck Finley
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Volume two is a further step forward in the realm of Okito coin box magic. There are some great ideas and some fantastic routines. There are a few classic moves but there is a lot of new ideas and some are well worth the time to add to your bag of tricks too.

1. The Classic Dump-out: This move is a real killer especially when you see how it is used in the routine called No Table Required. I think this move is going to find its way into many routines. This is a clever way to dump a coin from a coin box onto your open hand and still retain it in the box. For those who want to do a coin box routine without a table you will find this quite useful.

2. The One Handed Elementary Turnover: much like volume one there are some standard moves on this download as well. This move is a variation of the elementary turnover and though I did not see it used in either of these I can only assume it may come up in volume 3.

3. The Pick and Drop: there are several ways to right an inverted coin box in this series but this one is really nice. This is very subtle and looks exceptionally nice. It looks as if you pick the box from the table between your index finger and thumb. With just a drop from an inch or less it lands mouth up with the lid just across the box and table. This works every bit as well dropping into an outstretched palm.

4. Rollover Restoration: another standard move that is taught for the sake of completeness on this set.

5. The Short Shot Toss Revolve: This is a great sleight and certainly an improvement over the Standard Toss Revolve. You have to see this incredible idea because this seems like a small change but this small change in handling makes a big change.

6. The Simplest Turnover: if ever there was a box move that lived up to its name this is it. This is a nearly self working way to place a coin box on the table in its right position.

7. SSJW Coin Box Switch: cross a coin box with one of Sol Stones best color change ideas and you get a fantastic coin box switch. Then using this switch he teaches a quickie routine called Heavy Lifting Coins Across. I love this idea and with it you can switch any type of box for another and looks really good.

8. The Utility Box Switch: having a number of box switches to draw from is never a bad thing. This can be done in almost every conceivable condition and is definitely a very usable sleight for the standing performer.

9. Momentary Palm/ turnover: This is an interesting idea that uses a palm many might not be familiar with. The momentary palm is used to hold out a box lid for an interesting turnover. The turnover can be used for a secret turnover for a steal but this really comes into its own as a get ready for many routines. This palm will not be of a lot of use outside its applications with the coin box but is great with it.

10. Not Quite In: This is one of the routines that is shown in the promo’s that have been knocking around. I am going to say this is a great routine and I have used it a lot. This is absolutely a practical in a do anytime anywhere type situation. The sleights really work together smoothly and create a nice flow. This also has the benefit of starting where it finishes so that means instant reset.

11. Star Triple Travel: This is a great concept and it opens all new ideas using the Star coin box. I have performed this a few times and it has such a good flow to it. This looks far more complicated than it really is but most will be able to do this in no time. What I really like is that it uses so few moves to create a fantastic one at a time transposition of three copper and three silver coins. Though based on a sleight discovered by David Roth it adds a new level that one must see to fully appreciate.

12. Chinese Magic Coin: This is a great piece of magic for the standing performer. Using a Chinese coin as a magic token you cause the three silver coins locked in the coin box to travel to an empty pocket. What makes this so nice is you lock the coins in the box and cause them to travel one at a time. The interesting part about this is you never do a direct steal of the coins. You do use a one ahead idea but in a very interesting way that is so subtle. Like just about everything in this download it is done standing and is reset when you are done.

13. No Table Required: in the realm of coin box magic so few attempts have ever been made to make routines that do not use a table at all. I think this is mostly due to the fact that coin box magic has really been mostly used by the sitting performer. Everything in this set is made for the standing performer but this routine is especially for when you do not have a table at all. Like almost everything on here this is built on some very subtle ideas. The plot is quite basic; three coins travel one at a time from the right hand into the empty coin box in the left. This too is reste at the end of each performance.

14. The One Coin Routine: Slydini created a master piece when he performed his one coin routine and this is a variation on the concept using a coin box. The effect is really good and it has a great climax ending that a lay audience will never see coming. You will have to bone up on the coin vanish taught in volume one but if you do you have a real good piece of magic in this one. A single coin travels from place to place; the elbows, back into an empty box, under a bag the box was carried in, and even to the inside of the bag. Each time the box is seen completely empty until the end of the routine when the box is dumped out and it is full of coins. One of the best parts about this is the box is seen empty just before it is seen full. Like so many of the ideas this is built around subtlety and not extreme manipulation. This is a great routine!

15. Pierced through: talk about an interesting take on the coin through hand idea. This is yet another coin through hand idea that has been built up to be more of a full routine rather than a quick trick. Using a sharp pencil you push a coin not only through the small hole in the coin box but through your hand as well. You attempt to to do it again in a way that can be seen but this time the pencil passes thru the coin while it is in the box. The coin is removed from the pencil but in doing so it vanishes and reappears in the coin box which has been on the table the whole time. This is a great application for a coin box with the hole in it and if you do a coin through hand you might just want to check this out because the penetration of the hand with the pencil along with the coin falling is a great convincer of everything going through your hand.

16. The Red Bag Holdout: this is less of a full routine and more of a technique for switching the contents of one coin box for the contents of another. The nice part of this is it can be tacked onto the end of an existing routine you may already do for an added climax. In the example in this download the four silver coins which were used during your routine turn into copper in a magical way. The bag hides the preparation in the open until you want to ring in it for the climax. Obviously you could switch the coins out for other things not just copper coins. One of the nicest bits is that it is easy to get into and easy to make happen. All in all this is a great idea.

17. Spellbound Box: I am going to start out by saying that this is fascinating because this is a routine that takes advantage of the box in unique ways. Its shows how a box and lid can be used to conceal coins in interesting ways. When you go from sitting to standing lapping is obviously out so you need to look at other means by which to conceal the coins and this is a great start for new ways of thinking. This takes advantage of the box to an nth degree. The plot is simple: three coins jump from the box one at a time and with a wave of the hand they change to another coin. Then these three change back to silver one at a time and are dropped back into the box. What is really great is how the box and lid are used as subtle convincers in this routine. It is a must see to really appreciate it.

18. Star Triple Travel: the use of the Star box has become so common these days and this routine could be used to great affect. The gimmick which is used in other routines makes for a squeaky clean transport of coins from the box to any other spot. This would be so simple to make fit any style performer. This also includes one of those moments where an unexpected bit takes place where by a coin does not travel to where it is supposed to but correcting this makes it stronger. I really like the way the coin at the end is vanished it has a very visual appeal to it. What I think is most useful here is the gimmick that is used; it will open many new ideas for the performer looking for inspiration. This is an old gimmick that needs new ideas.

19. Clear Box Concepts: the clear box has been on the market for a very long time and I feel that it has almost been looked at just a novelty. The concepts in the bonus section is a move to make this box less novelty and more useful. This is accomplished with the ideas in this section the routine called 4 out with 5 is great and takes advantage of the clear nature of the box instead of seeing it as a handicap. I just want to stress that this section will make you think differently about clear boxes. Some of the ideas for making coins visually vanish and appear are really thought provoking as well as very magical looking.

The Okito box has seems to have become very stagnant in the last 20 years. There has been very little material that has been done to advance this prop into a more modern idea. This download set seems to be attempting that and has succeeded on so many levels. The routines take advantage of being in a standing position and that by itself is a step forward.
I have outlined the sleights and routines that are explained singly in this download but this is not the extent of what there is in this download. There are more sleights laid out in this during the effects and again some are standard and some are all new ideas. My best guess is that these are going to be expanded upon in the next volume of the series.
I can see this inspiring some incredible new thinking now and in the future culminating in some fantastic magic. Volume number two seems to be slightly more advance than the first with less standard moves but this is not meant to downplay the first at all because it has great stuff on it too. It just seems as if volume one is building a foundation for volume number two. If this is the case then I cannot wait to see what will be on volume three.
mindpirate
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I wanted to throw in my 2 cents on these downloads.
Here is a link to my review. There is a lot of really interesting and innovative thinking on these volumes, and you should check them out. There is also a special offer near the end my review, so you can get a discount on both volumes. It's a really great deal!

Check it Out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alUh14_MJKk
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~MindPirate~
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DanTheMagicMan
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Speaking of Okito boxes, I have a new site that sells Okito and similar coin boxes a-la-carte or in a set. 10 colors to choose from and in USA half and quarter sizes. They are 3D printed on demand so you can buy just the boxes and colors you want (no need to buy a lid for each box).

Check it out here
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/funtastic-magic
Dan The Magic Man
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tonsofquestions
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Are the boxes sized to hold a shell, or just the coins?
mindpirate
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Will you do dollar sized boxes?
~MindPirate~
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DanTheMagicMan
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Sorry, no shell support at this time. Mindpirate, which dollar size coin do you mean? Trying to figure out which coin sizes people like the most for the Okito box.

.
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William Dee
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I am by no means trying to offend your products in anyway but I'm not too certain I could get behind using an Okito box made from plastic.
Of course this is my own opinion. I have seen plastic boxes like this around for many years and I never really had the urge to try them.
This is my own opinion of course but I prefer the the look, sound, and feel of a metal box.

I bought a box and took it to a machine shop to have the alterations done for the routine Pierced Thru and it cost me $20 bucks to have the work done. I had to leave it until they could fit it in but they said it should be a week and I'm really pumped to get it back. I am going to add it into my show ASAP

Now as far as the material on the download set Coin Box Concepts there are some great ideas that are really thought provoking.
I really like a lot of the ideas on those downloads and over the last month or so have found them to be well worth the price I paid for them.
I actually use two of the routines every night at my restaurant gigs. Now that you can get both for $29 it's even a better deal.
Michael Rubinstein
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In my new Penguin Live lecture I perform the Substitution Trunk Mystery, using the box as just a prop and not a secret tool. Hope you like it. New handing and new sleights. Download available from Penguin on August 28th.
NEW MANUSCRIPT - TWILIGHT ZONE WILD COIN. All New!! As seen on Penn and Teller Fool Us! PM for details!
Rattle purse 2.0 now available! PM me for details!
New FOUR hour Penguin Live lecture TWO with 23 NEW routines, available for download at: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7338
Penguin Live lecture One is THREE hours long, and contains 18 coin effects! Available as a dvd or download from Penguin at http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/5960
New York Coin Magic Seminar dvd series available for download at: https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/magic-dvds/new-york-coin-magic-seminar-downloads/
NEW!! At The Table 2 hour lecture download OR DVD containing 11 routines, including THREE never taught before! Download and dvd avaliable at http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S22380 or http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S22833
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