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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Jul 17, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
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On Jul 17, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote: What are the odds that would happen?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On Jun 30, 2016, Cliffg37 wrote: I would argue that getting violently attacked by a felon while I'm away from my home is just as appropriate a situation as being attack IN the home. |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On Jul 2, 2016, funsway wrote: No. You don't have "the right," to know whether I'm carrying. Your, "feeling," is one without rational basis. Those of us who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to be fingerprinted, pass a background check, buy a firearm, get training etc, are not the people you need to know about. The felons intent on committing violent crimes, are. Unfortunately, they don't jump through all those legal hoops. |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On Jul 2, 2016, funsway wrote: Why do you feel like you have some sort of imagined, "right," to know a victim of sexual assault is carrying a concealed firearm? Or a victim of domestic abuse whose ex just got out of prison is carrying a firearm? It's rather arrogant to think you have a "right," to know these things about people, don't you think? |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On Jul 17, 2016, RobertSmith wrote: Is concealed carry a right? If not, why do you feel you have some sort of imagined right to it? I am not stating an opinion on concealed carry, I am just pointing out that your logic seems to cut both ways. http://www.wsj.com/articles/appeals-cour......65483920 "June 9, 2016 - Americans have no Second Amendment right to carry concealed guns in public, a federal appeals court in California ruled on Thursday in a significant blow to gun-rights activists and gun owners in a large swath of the Western U.S. ... Many gun-law experts, Second Amendment scholars and others expect the law on concealed-carry outside the home ultimately will be settled by the U.S. Supreme Court. The court has so far turned away several opportunities to take up the issue."
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts |
As noted above, I do not have a firm position on conceal vs open -- which is why I started the thread.
Then, some responses deal with the "right to carry" with no distinction as requested. So, I pose the idea of my "right to be safe in my person" as a consideration in choosing "conceal" vs "open" Also note that the Constitution does not create any "right" for a person to own, keep, carry a gun. There is not "2nd Amendment right." This Amendment just states that Congress cannot pass any law that infringes on the right of a citizen to "keep" and "bear" as separate concepts. Thus, it can be inferred that such rights are inherent and outside of the Federal Government to restrict as recognized at the time of the signing. The meaning of "keep," "bear, "arms,"and "citizen" are open to interpretation which is what the Supreme Court is for, but nay such interpretation does not create any "right" -- just defines what "restrict" means. So, the theoretical "right" of any person to possess a gun outside of their home is no more important that my right to feel safe, or my right not to have my life plans interfered with, etc. If it is determined that a person cannot be infringed on their inherent right to bear away for home, then why does this imply a right to hide the fact? There may be rational reasons or even silly ones for wanting to have a weapon concealed, but that has nothing to do with any "right" to do so. The above cited California law is to the point. It does not deal with any right to have a gun in public, only the ability to conceal the fact.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On Jul 18, 2016, funsway wrote: But you clearly started you believe, even if only for now, that you have a "right" to know if someone is carrying a firearm. So I pose the question again, why do you believe you have a right, "for now" or any other period of time, to know whether a victim of sexual assault is carrying a firearm? Or a women abused by an ex husband is carrying a firearm to protect herself? |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2016, balducci wrote: I would never trust anyone who thinks that "protectee" is a word. |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2016, S2000magician wrote: Your call, but it IS listed in various dictionaries (e.g. by the Oxford University Press, by Random House).
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts |
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On Jul 19, 2016, RobertSmith wrote: I have already answered that but I will repeat. I have a right to be secure in my person and to pursue my life plan without undue interference and respect for the rights of others. Why a person chooses to cary a gun is irrelevant, but nothing I have said implies they do not have the right to carry a gun. My question is why they chose to conceal it - a completely different issue. Why won't you address that question? in addition -- Even at home, before I enter your yard I have a right o know if there is anything possibly threatening to my welfare such as a vicious or infectious disease. Local laws can require you post a sign announcing this danger. So, why not post a sign about the weapons you have so that I can decide not to risk entering? Folks leave their expensive car in the driveway so that neighbors can ogle and be envious, so why should the the proud owner of an assault rifle proudly proclaim the fact?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On Jul 20, 2016, funsway wrote: People chose to conceal for a variety of reasons. Not the least of which is it gives a tactical advantage and keeps the sheep from panicking. Beyond that, you seem to have an overly developed sense of self importance, don't you think? |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts |
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On Jul 22, 2016, RobertSmith wrote: I would be interested in ALL of the reasons -- which is what this thread is about. But your opinions are noted. It is an exploration into a question that does not necessarily relate to my personal beliefs at all -- as stated in the OP. It is interesting that you seem to project some idea of "self-importance" into the question, beyond, of course, the desire a person to carry a gun for self-protection. Since in most States you cannot us that gun to protect anyone else, what is the carry but an overly developed sense of self-importance. (relative to the sheep) Now, please explain what "tactical advantage" has to do with "self-protection." Maybe I am missing something here. Wouldn't being able to reach an open carry quickly over digging in a purse be a tactical advantage?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
In what states can you carry a gun but not use it to protect someone else?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
The state of idiocracy.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On Jul 24, 2016, funsway wrote: In "most" states you can't use a firearm to protect someone else? Could you name those states? Maybe just 5 of them? You need an explanation as to what tactical advantages have to do with self protection? Yes. You are missing something. In fact, I'd say you're missing everything. I don't carry a purse so I can't comment. |
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greerj Loyal user East Tennessee 283 Posts |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
I think the rule is, if the kid is at least 14 and continually kicking your seat, it's ok to shoot him. If he's under 14, and his father confronts you and not the kid, then it's ok to shoot the father.
Oh yeah: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/07......robbery/
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5931 Posts |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts |
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On Jul 24, 2016, RobertSmith wrote: So, I gather you are refusing to answer the question. I started this thread to ask questions in the hope of getting rational answers. Instead I get deflection and diversions. Now you include personal attacks as well. I admit my personal experience is limited here which is exactly why I ask the questions. When my brother was getting his conceal permit in Colorado he shared some of the reading material with me. IT was clearly and repeated stated that a person with conceal carry could only use the gun for personal protection, and the in most States to draw the gun when one is not personally threatened is wrong and unlawful. Examples were giving in which observing a robbery of another individual was not cause for drawing your gun. Other examples included where another person was threatened by a gun but not you personally. Perhaps these courses have changed in the last three years. So, I ask questions. You have claimed there are many reasons for concealed carry over open carry but refuse to share them with readers here. Now you claim there is a tactical advantage of concealed carry for personal protection, but refuse to clarify this view. Don't project or assume what my views are -- just please answer the questions and provide useful information.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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