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John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
I am looking for a locking [ & insert, such as for a SnS, but..
I want the copper side of the insert to be of a woman and the silver side to be of a man, (I want to be able to combine the [ & insert backwards, so as to be left with a C/S that shows heads on both sides (one male the other female); AND, I want to be able to use my bang ring to reopen it (I don't want it locked up forever!) I've looked at the inserts of my HH & SnS, and they all have the copper side of the insert as the "obverse" of the associated coin. So I'm wondering if for some reason the gaff that I'm looking for has just never been made as a head/head. I was able to find one C/S coin that was head/head, but it didn't not come with the associated locking [. I would prefer the silver coin to be a Kennedy half, and the copper to be and EP Suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks; John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts |
How important is the "locking"? I think Tango makes a TUC with a C/S insert that could go back in either way (but it is just "held well" not "locked")
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased). |
John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
Poof-D
I may want to look into the TUC coins, but since it would be close up, and I will end with the "creation" of the C/S, I think I will want to be able to hand it out. If I can't find this at a reasonable price, I may try to develop a sleight of hand way to accomplish this final phase (where a copper coin and a silver coin fuse together - sort of a multiple phases Anniversary Waltz, but with coins) John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse Inner circle 1513 Posts |
Contact todd lassen. He may be willing to make it up for you
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
Yes I'd contact a custom gaff maker, it's a good way to guarantee you get what you want.
However, I'll ask the harder question: do you really need to hand out the S&S rather than doing a switch for the plain C/S coin? More to the point, though, if you don't mind my asking, why do you want to hand out the C/S coin at all? It always bothers me a little when magicians make a spectator realize that a coin (or anything else) might not be a real coin. It's related to "walk, don't run". If they hadn't thought that such a coin could ever exist, why suggest it to them, even if it's presented in the form of an "impossible object"? Most people don't think of a double-headed coin, and if I show someone one, now they're all suspicious of every past and future coin flip. It becomes worse the more secret the gaff. If I find some other way to do the reveal, they're none the wiser. If you want to do an anniversary waltz with coins, could you do the same thing, but start and end with just silver coins, rather than mixing? -Tons PS I make exceptions for showing gaffs when it's clear someone could figure it out, like with a karate coin. But even then, I think it's more powerful to pierce the coin, then return it to normal. |
John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
Tonsofquestions:
"do you really need to hand out the S&S rather than doing a switch for the plain C/S coin? " Good question.. Like the old saying, necessity is the mother of all invention.. when I was seeing little hope getting an off-the-shelf gaff, I started looking into a completely gaffless method. It works, but a SS would have made the last phase cleaner/less fidgeting. I next moved to using a HH set for the first 2 (or 3) phases, but accomplished the last phase with a in-my-hand switch (but before the "magic" is seen, not after). I still need to make that last phase "cleaner". "do you want to hand out the C/S coin at all? " The WHOLE effect culminates in showing a melding of the copper and silver into one coin. (that is the parallel to Anniversary Waltz, not signatures on the coins). The story line is Jack (a J Kennedy half) and Liz (an EP) have a tempestuous relationship. They would get together (in my hand), then one would leave (be removed from my hand), but they would always get back together(reappear in my hand). Then after a few phases of this (such as is done with the typical HH routine), they eventually decide to get married, but Jack "leaves" the church, and people are waiting to see if he returns, but when Liz walks out of the church alone(only the copper coin in my opened hand) and only she is seen, every one gasps, but not Liz, she is smiling. As it is written the two have become one flesh (or, for what God has joined together, let no man separate); and the C/S is turned over) Like it or not, that is the story line, and it would have no climax without the C/S being shown. It is not a fortuitous exposure of a gaff; I believe the context would make it appear to be an impossible object to the spectators, that "organically" fits with the story. Handing the coin out is a separate issue from showing a C/S. I just wanted to end clean, which in this case is with the open showing of what would otherwise be considered a gaff. John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse Inner circle 1513 Posts |
I do have to agree with Tons about shoeing a gaff rd coin. I made the mistake of showing a scotch and soda to my aunt when I first started. Now every coin I apparently have is gaffed
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Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse Inner circle 1513 Posts |
To her I mean even when they arent
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
The fact that it fits within the routine doesn't preclude it from being an odd exposure. Even putting on my best spectator hat, if I saw a trick that ended with a C/S coin, I'd have to wonder how long you'd had it, and what other times you'd used that coin.
I recall seeing a neat alternative C/S coin in a trick by Tyler Rabbit on Coin Magic Underground: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RtlIGS9WiY&feature=youtu.be where the split is through the face of the coin, rather than the edge. Could that work for you? It has an even more visual impossible object, and also solves the problem of undermining your routine. I never managed to find one like that, but if you're ordering something custom, that might be sufficient. If you manage to figure out where to get them, let me know, I'd consider one too. |
John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
I don't know if my response got deleted accidentally, or on purpose, but I'll try again.
The split face C/S is an interesting looking gaff that somewhat fits with a series of spellbound type changes, but not my routine. My story line has the woman come out of the church alone, the "normal" C/S allows that and also allows a delay in the climax of the story line, as well as a delay in the magic moment. As to "exposure", there is no exposure (of method) - the C/S was not used to create any of the magic moments. It is just a unique looking prop. To freely show a C/S, as I would be doing, I see as no more exposure than showing any other "impossible" object (e.g;, karate coin (as you mentioned), a mismade bill, mis-pipped cards, or Holy Moly's slug with 2 holes..). Yet, just as I wouldn't do back to back tricks that use the same method (or special prop), I would avoid following this routine using a C/S to create the magic (since they would still be thinking about this special coin), but at a different time/venue I would feel free to use a C/S to create some of the magic. John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
You're right that you can't just open your hand to show the coin at the end, but I can also imagine an easy modification:
"she peeked around the door" -- you pull out just half of the coin, showing the copper part "we have become one!" -- you pull out the rest of the coin, and it's the "modified" C/S. Anyway, it's no matter. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. You'll do as you see fit, as well I. Good luck getting your custom S&S. |
John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
In searching through some of my notes, I found a routine where a copper coin and a silver coin fuse, and the resulting C/S is found in the spectators own hands:
Opposites Attract; in Attack of The Copper Silver Coin by Cameron Francis and David Forrest (http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S10841) An excerpt reads eerily similar to the effect I was working on, but in Opposites Attract, the C/S is placed in the spectators hands to see & handle: "On lifting his hand, though, our poor, bewildered Spec finds only his Copper coin…until this is turned over, to show that the Silver Coin has ‘fused’ itself to the reverse side – one side still bears the Spec’s initials, whilst the other bears the Magi’s! Even though my initial work on this preceded (at least my knowledge of) Attack of The Copper Silver, and ATCS seems to play out more like a two in the Hand, than mine which is basically a modified HH routine, I may buy it to get different handling ideas. Does anyone have a copy they want to sell me? John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse Inner circle 1513 Posts |
You should post a wtb in the book forum
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John Long Inner circle New Jersey 2826 Posts |
In searching through my collection of coins, I found a locking SS coin set that has Kennedy-[ and an C/S insert that has the Queen Elizabeth head too! It is sold by Johnson, and is called "Ultimate Silver & Copper.
The only problem is that the insert doesn't fit in properly when reversed - too tight. It appears that the "C" portion is trimmed to allow ~easy nesting, and the "S" portion is designed to give the tight fit. Has anyone tried reversing the orientation of the insert? I'm afraid that if I force it, I will have an expensive C/S. John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking |
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