We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Do Your Larger Tips Come From Bigger or Smaller Crowds? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
TheRealMagicMike
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas, NV
155 Posts

Profile of TheRealMagicMike
Nothing scientific here, but I believe my "bigger tips" (20's & above) come more when I have a smaller audience than a large crowd. I'm not sure if this is because when there are only 4 people they really get to be a "star" during the show... or if it's just because there is more "pressure" to tip well since their tip can't get "lost in the crowd"... or if I unknowingly put more energy into a small show since I can't depend on the "numbers" to make a good hat... just not sure if there is a particular reason, but wondering if anyone else notices what size audiences their "bigger tips" come from???
gallagher
View Profile
Inner circle
1109 Posts

Profile of gallagher
Hey Mike,
3:30 in the morning you wrote that,..!?
,..when do you sleep?!
,....oh,..
probably right now! 🙃

We get our 'biggest' Tipps,
with few people.
Not 'too' few(!),
but,..5,6,..9...12.
We're not sure,
if it's the Intimacy, the 'pity', or the Focus,..(?).

However,
we make our 'most' money,
with big Crowds(!)

Sometimes the 'intimacy',
is nice,..
we can work 'quieter and slower'.
Other times,
a nice big Crowd is cooool!
,..the Ego needs feeding, as well,..
every now and then.

We don't really have a preference(!).
After three tricks, however,
if there is NÖ interests,
or re-action,..
we pause,..
for the cause.

öK,
I'll let 'cha get back to sleep.
gallagher
cbguy
View Profile
Veteran user
350 Posts

Profile of cbguy
Mike,

I have noticed the same thing. I often wondered why this happens, but never thought too much into it. ...and think about this; we always want bigger crowds, right? Why? Is it to stroke our own ego? I think, for me it may be, but it shouldn't because if I get bigger tips from smaller crowds (which almost always happens) I should focus on figuring that out and focus on that aspect.

One of the problems I have is that I never stop building...I literally bring more people in right up to the last few minutes. I will literally walk out of my circle, shake someone's hand and hold onto it, leading them to the front...Many times, I've made just as much and at least once, I made more, from an audience of 15-20 as I have for an audience of 100+

This is certainly a subject that I am going to start paying more attention too. Maybe we can correspond and bounce ideas off each other on Facebook - explore this and see if we are on to something.

Lets talk some more soon!

Best,
TheRealMagicMike
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas, NV
155 Posts

Profile of TheRealMagicMike
Yes, its an interesting phenomena... I'd like to better understand it, if possible. I enjoy looking at different pieces of the puzzle and trying to break them down and improve them as often as I can... for me, its part of the enjoyment of being a street performer, magician and entrepreneur, all wrapped into one!!!

Gallagher - yes, I keep late hours. By the time I come off the "Strip", get home, have something to eat, wind down and jump on the computer for a bit, its usually quite late!!! (If only I could get by with 4-5 hours sleep!!!). Interesting that you have some of the same experience with this as I have had... not sure if this is a "law of busking" or if there can be all around improvement in results with this...

cbguy (Mike) - Yes, let's keep this in mind and see if we can come up with some variables/improvements... kick around some ideas when we can. Interesting you're always "building"... I may actually need to do a bit more of that... I take a break from it during the middle of my show and then try to build more of a crowd again for the "Grand Finale" (not so much for the extra tips, but more importantly for me, to try to keep them after the show to help me start and build my next audience). I know you're performing at a festival right now, so you're in a bit of a different situation... but your crowds do look BIG !!!
NYCTwister
View Profile
Loyal user
267 Posts

Profile of NYCTwister
I think it's a function of the intimacy you can attain with a smaller crowd.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
cbguy
View Profile
Veteran user
350 Posts

Profile of cbguy
Festivals are ridiculously big crowds...even when it's hot.

The street though, at one of my home pitchs is the exact opposite and ridiculously slow.

So, what I do is slow way down and take my time with everything, talking and joking with people always keeping an eye on movement on the street, coming my direction.

Once people are within range to hear me (I'm loud) I call attention to them so my current crowd acknowledges the passerby and I make a joke, leave my circle and approach them, asking their names and letting them know we are just having fun...then, invite them into the group. It works more often than not.

...if they don't join, I continue what I am doing, but the group now looks forward to more people walking by, because they know that whatever I'm going to say to the passers by will be entertaining.

This is how my 10 minute show can easily turn into 45 minutes. => It's all about going slow.

With that, I am actually in the process of trying to intentionally speed it up some, and keep it around 10 - 15 minutes, then repeat. I think I may end up with more $$ at the end of the day.

Because of the festival work, I'm testing these things on Mondays and Wednesdays...in the evening.
D. Yoder
View Profile
Veteran user
334 Posts

Profile of D. Yoder
My biggest tips come from grandparents who are hosting family who are visiting from out of the area. If I can make the grand kids' eyes light up with wonder, grandpas and I are both happy.
Latig0
View Profile
New user
63 Posts

Profile of Latig0
It's funny that you mention it. I felt the same thing many years ago for the first time. I was starting to be a busker and noticed that I was making more money from small crowds than from bigger ones. My show at that time was close-up magic. Now it's still close up magic but I play it bigger. I think the "more money from small crowds" phenomenon is because we have a better connection with them than with a larger audience. In my case I have a better connection because close-up magic is much better appreciated being close-up (DUH) than being far away. It is possible to create a good connection with a larger audience with card tricks (anything is possible) but it requires more than just the tricks.
I've been, I am and always will be a close-up magician, but I get crowd and hat envy when I watch my fellow street performers work. There's something about the validation and the ego stroking (and the money, of course) of having a hundred or more people watching that makes me want to have that type of show and crowd.
When you hear all those people laugh at something you say, it's like music to the ears!
I also believe it is possible to make big hats with a small magic show. I know many performers that are masters at getting the money. With a solid close-up magic show and some solid hatlines, the money will be there. I am still working on it.

Cheers.
Mario Morris
View Profile
Inner circle
Mario Morris
2044 Posts

Profile of Mario Morris
Quality versus quantity every time!!!
That said you can often have both in very large shows.
It comes down to many factors like shoppers verses tourists and so on.
Often I will work the build that is slower and the foot traffic is less my crowds are smaller but the hats are fatter.
Why? simply put they have more time, less bothered.
Rules are to be broken mind and this is not set in concrete, so look for quality.
If they are shopping then they are distracted, bothered and spent out - day trippers and holiday makers are best.
Mario
cbguy
View Profile
Veteran user
350 Posts

Profile of cbguy
I'm not saying that I have solved this mystery, but I will say this; This past weekend I made the biggest hat of my life.

It was more than most people will make in a week and I did it with a 25 minute show.

Now, keep in mind that I have been at this game for well over 10 years and I've always been searching for the Holy Grail.

At this point, I'm pretty sure I have found it, or at least as close as can be hoped for, after that show, I wrote some notes on what I did that was different than the last performance (I always do this to help me get better). The very next show, I tried too hard and forgot some key concepts.

Then, the next 3 shows, I repeated what I did on the big hat show and like beautiful magic...it worked. The hats were not as big but they were pretty darn close.

Last night, (a Monday) I went out and did the same thing, again it worked.

Hats were HUGE...

So, what is this secret? Well, it's not really a secret because if you read through Gazzo's book "The Art of Crowd Keeping" - Jimmy Talksalot's book "To Lure With Spectacle" - Cellini's "The Royal Touch" - Mario Morris ""School of Busking Notes" - Kozmo's "Tales From The Street" or if you watch the lectures from working pros, they ALL talk about it.

There is one more thing that I personally feel is absolutely required and that is "Authenticity"

Their are many people are magicians or jugglers who are WAAAAAAAY more talented than I am when it comes to moves, sleights, creativity, etc... So, the question is "What am I doing differently" The truth is, I don't give a *** about knowing everything...I specialize in one thing better than almost anyone I know and that thing is "People."

If you are authentic and make a connection to the people watching you, you will succeed. If they like you, you'll do alright, BUT...if they love you, you will be treated like a King and as a result, they will pay you like a King.

I want to share a story really quick: After discovering this thing that I stumbled into, I did a show on Monday, probably 10 or 12 minutes and I hatted $73. I don't know what your hats look like for that short of a show, but previously, before applying what I discovered last week, that same show was typically hatting in the $30 - $45 range. This is a MAJOR jump.

...but here is why I'm sharing this particular story; for my finale, I do a Bill to Lemon. Problem was that I started building while I was setting up and had a crowd of about 30 people before I was ready to go, further more, I didn't realize until I was into the routine that I forgot some stuff in the car.

I literally was about to freak out. I didn't want to lose my edge because I had that connection (when you have it, you know what I'm talking about) So, I literally improvised my way through the show when it came time to do the bill in lemon, I improvised the vanish of their signed bill...I cut a lemon open in front of their eyes and stuffed the bill inside. I did nothing to hide this, I just went along playing with the people (again, Jimmy Talksalot stuff) then I made a few jokes took out a knife and this time called their attention to me cutting open the lemon.

I pulled out the bill and their jaws dropped. DON'T ASK ME TO DO THIS AGAIN!!! I honestly Do Not know how this turned into a freaking miracle for them because when I say I did the entire thing in plain sight...I DID.

They laughed, cheered, stuck around asking a million questions and filled my hat with lots of money.

Why, because like I said, I think I found the Holy Grail.

I am NOT going to share this secret with everyone, BUT I will eventually share it with the real workers. Before I do that, I will test it out in a bunch of different situations to make sure that it stands a multitude of tests, so I don't look like a fool later on.

Peace!!!
TheRealMagicMike
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas, NV
155 Posts

Profile of TheRealMagicMike
Quote:
On Sep 20, 2016, cbguy wrote:
I am NOT going to share this secret with everyone, BUT I will eventually share it with the real workers. Before I do that, I will test it out in a bunch of different situations to make sure that it stands a multitude of tests, so I don't look like a fool later on.

Peace!!!


I would just like to mention that Thursday is my birthday!!! Smile

... I've been keeping track of my shows/hats as well for the past couple of weeks since this thread went up. Things are still bouncing around all over the place and I haven't noticed any one thing I'm doing differently for the bigger hats... I have noticed that when the audience's excitement level is higher, the percentage of people who tip is much higher, therefore the hat is significantly better (which I suppose is an obvious observation)... BUT, I have not yet found a way to "create" that synergy on a consistent basis... (but I'm working on it)... Still looking for the "Golden Ticket"...

I'm certainly interested in what you're finding... Hope you've found the "Holy Grail" (or at least a piece of it)!
gallagher
View Profile
Inner circle
1109 Posts

Profile of gallagher
Caution.

The "Grail" turned fine wine,
into blood,..
and all those who drank,
ended up,..
or down(!),
on a cross.

Caution.

'Struggle' for a Show that satisfies you.
Share your 'pleasure'.
It doesn't get better then this.
It doesn't get better then this.

,....it doesn't have to.

Enjoy "the bounce".
Accept hitting the ground.
Enjoy the view, at the top(!).
Express both,..
in your Life,.
in your Shows.
(Remain human.)

Learn to enjoy your Shows.
Strive, to enjoy your Shows.

,the 'Hat' is simply to keep the head warm,
...and body fed.
The Show, warms the heart,
the brain,
...feeds the soul.

Be carefull.
,..but keep 'being'. 🙃
(And keep looking!)
gallagher
MagiCol
View Profile
Special user
Dargaville, New Zealand
929 Posts

Profile of MagiCol
Cbguy, thanks for taking the time for this lengthy write-up of your busking experience.
And I'll be interested to read what you think is 'the secret' , to find what works for you.
The presentation makes the magic.
cbguy
View Profile
Veteran user
350 Posts

Profile of cbguy
Thanks for the responses, just keep in mind, this isn't "my" idea, all the guys who are better than me and have wrote about it, make mention of it in their books and lectures.

It's about connecting with the people and letting them know you care.

I guess a good term would be that it's hidden in plain sight. With the advancement of technology, electronics and F'n Pokemon' everyone is so disconnected, yet we are all human and when you do basic little things to show you care, people can't help but notice, especially since almost no one does this anymore. These days, people bury their heads in their cell phones, send tweets that are brief and meaningless, not to mention that disrespect and disregard run rampant.

Believe me when I tell you, little things make a BIG difference.

Anyway, I have noticed a structure that seems to work, for me. I feel if I give someone the words, they can recite them, but if it lacks sincerity, they will fail, then say it doesn't work.

TheRealMagicMike: I will send you the structure on Facebook and maybe even word for word, what I say and do. If you can test it in your shows that can give us some more clarity as to whether it is as effective as I feel it has been.

I will also look through some video to see what has be recorded that I can share with you as well.
cbguy
View Profile
Veteran user
350 Posts

Profile of cbguy
Mike, I sent you a 3 page pdf of my notes on this stuff via Facebook.
TheRealMagicMike
View Profile
Regular user
Las Vegas, NV
155 Posts

Profile of TheRealMagicMike
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2016, cbguy wrote:
Mike, I sent you a 3 page pdf of my notes on this stuff via Facebook.


Got it... thanks so much...

On my first quick "read-thru" I had the same reaction as I do when I see an effect that is familiar, I SHOULD know how it's done, I'm flirting with the method, but I just can't quite figure it out... then the magician shows me and its a combination of excitement, awe, motivation and a little annoyance that I didn't figure it out sooner... lol.

You are undoubtedly onto something... some things can be implemented immediately; some things will require some thought and tweaking... but I can't wait to go out tonight as my new insight settles in for the next few hours...

-------------------------------------------------

Gallagher said:
"Learn to enjoy your Shows.
Strive, to enjoy your Shows.

,the 'Hat' is simply to keep the head warm,
...and body fed.
The Show, warms the heart,
the brain,
...feeds the soul."

Your thoughts above and cbguys advice actually merge quite well... his "method" is to me an extension of "enjoying your show", with some specific tips and principles attached...
RiffRaff
View Profile
Special user
652 Posts

Profile of RiffRaff
It's been a long time since I've read a worthwhile thread on the Café.
Thanks for bringing this up, TheRealMagicMike.
cbguy, can you tell us more about your 'structure'?
Stperformer
View Profile
Loyal user
289 Posts

Profile of Stperformer
Ditto, what Riff Raff.

When it comes the 'Holy Grail' secret/structure etal.....there's a lot I can add..... but I'll politely await cbguy's finding before I post.
RiffRaff
View Profile
Special user
652 Posts

Profile of RiffRaff
Eagerly awaiting your insights as well, Stperformer!
cbguy
View Profile
Veteran user
350 Posts

Profile of cbguy
Guys, As of right now, I am not sharing anything openly with the exception of a very few people.

The reason is because at least for now, I want to share it with workers who are willing to share some stuff with me as well so we can maximize our earning potential. This is not for the curious arm chair or youtube magician who wants something for free and is gonna run out and hack it up.

I seriously consider this aspect of performing an art form in it's own right.

Obviously, I'm using a name here not to be recognized by the majority.

If anyone here would like the information I have and is willing to share insights and make it even better, all I ask is that you send me a PM with a link to some video of YOU busking along with an email or Facebook, so we can connect further.

This is just a safeguard, so I know that I'm sending this info to a worker and keeping it in the hands of people who will actually be able to contribute to making it even better.

Sorry if this disappoints some, but this is some of my life's work and it has been hard earned and NOT for sale.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Do Your Larger Tips Come From Bigger or Smaller Crowds? (6 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL