Slightly related to this post, but different enough that I think this deserves its own post.

Long ago as a kid, I remember getting a pair of two-sided quarters. They were great, but when you flipped them, they didn't sound like real coins, so they were harder to flip. the few C/S coins and shimmed coins I have are the same way - even though they're of varying quality (some you can see the split and some not.

Real coins have a bell like sound when you flip them, because they're a solid chunk piece metal. A lot of gaffed coins don't do this (they "thud" instead), and I always thought this was just a given because of different materials mating together, and the created seam. However, a few days ago someone gave me a C/S coin as a gift, and to my amazement, it sounded like a real coin!

What is it about the production that makes some gaffs sound correct, and others wrong?

I realize some coins (like a flipper or bite) that will likely never sound correct, because of the multiple pieces in play. But which ones are possible vs impossible? Can you get a magnetic coin to sound normal? What about a split coin?

Are some manufacturers reliably better than others at it, or is it more of a crapshoot?

If you have hard data about a specific coin/manufacturer, I'd be interested, but I'd like to stay away from the usual manufacturer flame wars.

Most gaffs are going to sound "off" for the reasons you noted. About the only other "gaff" I can think of that would "ring" would be something like an English penny milled down to fit a half dollar shell.... because it's still a single hunk of metal. Generally the solution is to routine around it. See David Roth's shelled coins across as one example.

Or You Could A Rattle Gimmick To add the Sound back In!

As the others have said it is a general problem with gaff bit you can work around it.

Lassen has made "true ring" copper silver coins.

Another thing I like about split coins is they do not have the hollow tinny sound of a shell.
So I often even let them both click a little to show my customer they are still in one hand
take "one" out, and make the other vanish. So split coins are different and you can actually use their
sound to show they are still there........ this gets gasps

David - I'm sure your coin rattle gimmicks are great, but I'm asking about the coin "ring" sound, not a rattle. So it's not much help here.

CountryMaven - is yours a particular manufacturer? Mine make a bit of a clink if they touch, similar to that from a click pass, but definitely not the same as if I flipped a normal coin. I'm guessing if yours ring, only when split, and not together?

I agree that it's an issue with many gaffs in general, and I'd just taken it for granted that all gaffs would have the problem, hence my surprise when I found this one rang true. I'm not sure who made this C/S coin, but I'd guess it's probably more like Johnson or Tango than any of the high-end guys.

Does anyone know what it is about the manufacture that would make it sound correct? I'm somehow not surprised that Lassen figured out how to do it.

And then back to my original question: does anyone know of gaffers that can do it consistently? Which gaffed coins are likely to sound correct?
C/S? Double-sided? Shimmed? Magnetic? Others?

That ring or clink is because of the resonance frequency. That all depends on the metals and amount of metal that is together.

Hey tons:
I think mine is a fairly typical split coin, but I am not throwing them together, I am mildly clinking them in one hand, to let the spectator hear they are still there.
there is no way a spectator can detect anything wrong with this minimal sound

Hay Man I have a Few Outer Ways To cover It! My Mask Move being One Of Them ! but If your looking For Multi Coins In The hand, A coin and a shell in the hand, Or covering something Like The bad Sound Or A C.S.B. The R.G. does that Great!!!

I can assure you that David knows exactly what you're asking and his suggestion is relevant.

"Rattle" is the name of the gimmick, not the sound it makes. They are specifically designed to make the sound of coins clanking in your hand that you asked about, and are usually MADE of coins that will "ring". It's a general purpose solution - instead of trying to find gimmicks that happen to rattle/ring, you can make ANY coin gimmick sound like it's supposed to, or even make a single coin (or no coins) in your hand sound like more than one.

Inigmntoya - from your (and David's) responses, I can assure you that neither of you understand what I'm asking. Or, at the very least neither of you have answered it.

I'm familiar with the rattle gimmick, understand what it does (know that the sound is not like a rattle), and while it's a great solution, it is specifically *not* what I was trying to find out.

There are many different sounds a coin can make, among them, I put two (main) types for your consideration:

1) Take a single coin, balance it on your finger, and flip it into the air with your thumb. Hear that? Kind of like a bell. This is the sound of a single coin. I'll call it a "ring" so we have a specific word to use.

2) Take two coins, and tap them together, while holding both firmly. Or drop one on top of the other. A pretty different sound. I think it's more of a "clink", so I'll call it that.

Now the second "clink" sound is very important. It's what makes the click pass deceiving. It's critical when you're working with multiple coins, because people are used to hearing it and expect it. CSB, coins across, anything that has two coins hitting flat into each other. The rattle gimmick is a great solution here. But while I'm tangentially curious about coins that can do this deceptively, I think it's easier to simulate. And it's not the heart of my original question.

I'm primarily asking about that first sound, the "ring". What's the sound of one [s]hand[/s] coin makes? Flip that coin again. Now go flip a C/S coin. Does it do the same thing (who made it)? This is the sound I'd like to know more about.

For years, I took it for granted that this sound was basically impossible to make with any gaffed coin more complicated than a reduced one. Now I find out that it's not true, because I hold in my hand one that sounds correct. (It's the wrong pitch, but a spectator is less likely to know that.)

I was perhaps unclear in my original post, and the topic title was ambiguous, since it talks about "coins" plural, when I really mean each coin individually.

So I'll try asking again, now that it's hopefully more clear from our shared vocabulary of "clink" and "ring".

Does anyone know what it is about the manufacture that would make a gaffed coin "ring" properly?

And more to the point: does anyone know of gaffers that can do it consistently? Which gaffed coins are likely to "ring" true?
C/S? Double-sided? Shimmed? Magnetic? Others?

I understand your question, as I also have the same problems with gaffed coins. None of them has a nice sound. And I like to do the click pass as well. Indeed, it's much more deceiving when the coins ring right.

I have met with a french coingaffer, MagiKoins (MKS) and he told me that this is what all coingaffers are trying to achieve, but apparently no one really knows the solution. Not yet. MKS told me it's likely due to the glue put inside coins like shimmed and m******c ones (and certainly C/S ones as well although he didn't mentioned it, since I only asked about custom-making shimmed and m******c coins).

July, I have called Roy Kueppers and asked if he knows about this problem and why it may happen, and if he can make a shimmed half dollar and a shimmed english penny coins that make a sound like a normal coin would. First, I informed him about what MKS told me before, and Roy said that he believes it might indeed be due to the glue applied. He said he can make shimmed coins that have better sound, although they might probably never have the same nice sound of a real coin, but it will still be nicer. In making my custom-made coins, he said he would not apply glue, like what's usually used, but I don't remember what product he said he would use.

I'm still waiting for the coins to arrive (it takes a bit of time I admit...). I'll tell you more if you wish, as soon as I receive them.

Interesting. I'd definitely love to hear the result of your coins, and if you find out what it is that he uses instead.
I was thinking of ordering some coins from Roy, so depending on your results, I might ask for the same treatment.

Good luck waiting - how much longer do you have to go?

I don't know, I'm a very patient, and I have heard he was on holiday during July or August, or something. If I don't receive anything in a week or two, I will leave him a message. I just regret that Roy didn't prevent his customer he was on holiday and, thus, orders would have been delayed.

By the way, I think again about your C/S coin that has a sound like a real coin. I'm wondering if that was an "accident" that it has such a nice sound.

Like I said, MKS convinced me about the difficulty of making a coin like the ones you are requesting. The inside of a gimmicked coin is composed of glue, unlike real coins, so indeed, it's a quite difficult task to make them having a nice sound. For instance, I have many N3 and N4 coin sets, those coins in my opinion being the best in the world (no, no I'm not kidding), and in my first N3, that I dropped many times when doing the color change move (that now I've mastered), when you shake the C/S coin of this N3 coin set that I have damaged, you hear something inside, like a rattling sound, probably the m****t inside. So that shows you an idea of why a gimmicked coin usually doesn't make the same noise as normal ones.

Still, I have the opportunity to touch some of MKS's coins that are made of silver. They don't sound like real coins, but I like it when they hit each other, as they make like a "bell" sound. Really nice. But still, they don't sound as good as real coins, in my opinion. And I'm guessing you won't be satisfied with silver made coins. When real coins hit each other, you hear a loud "TINK". That wasn't the case for silver made coins.

To be honest, if really no one is able to make such a coin, one suggestion is to use real coins and gimmicked coins, as I do. Since my N3 and N4 coin sets are not examinable, I need to use real coins for switching. I can do a click pass with them, and vanish them inside my TKO, etc. The reason why I ordered some shimmed and m******c coins is because I have a lot, lot of m******c holdouts that I use for coin magic.

Anyway, I will let you know the results of Kuepper's custom made coins.

The difference may be whether the coin is glued or soldered/brazed together. Cut coins do not sound right to begin with, but if you glue them together, the glue will act as a muffler to any ring, kind of like putting a layer of foam into a bell. A ring is caused by tonal vibrations reverberating through the entirety of the metal coin. Any alteration to the solidity of the coin (cutting, drilling, hollowing) will affect that coin's tonal quality.

Soldering or brazing, if done correctly, fuses the metals together, using molten metal. It is a far more solid joint that will put up with far more punishment than a glued joint. If done with spring loaded clamps, the clamps will force the two discs together as the solder melts, creating a much more solid join. If the solder joins the two discs together solidly, it will be more likely to ring when flipped or dropped, but differing metals may still sound a bit off. As was stated earlier, even an off ring is better than a thud.

I use a lot of gaffed coins in conjunction with regular coins. I think you might be missing the point. when was the last time a spectator told you the sound of the coin was just a half note off, or a 1% more tinny sound than a regular coin? if it sounds tinny or off, learn to keep the coins more quiet, by changing your handling of the coins. also. using gaffed coins with regular coins is very deceptive. I often use gaffed coins along with regular coins. I pass out the regulars and hold onto the gaffed ones. I have yet to have anyone to suspect a gaff. but when they did, I denied this and said I could do it with borrowed coins. learn to switch out the coins if needed. as an extra "option" in the routine. but mostly, you will not have anyone suspect gaffed coins, or funky sounds, if you just learn to manage the coins and handling properly . EXPERIMENT, CHANGE IT WHEN NEEDED . THAT is what works for me. be kind of off the cuff, and trickier than they can ever imagine. for instance. this type of thinking has me making magic happen in customers hands, with me not touching their hands.

the result? free meals, minds blown, people running to try to film me doing it again (I don't') and soon, I will be making more money than I can handle by applying what I said. so watch out, these general pieces of advice work too well. hehe.

So they did suspect a gaff then? Was that because of the sound or a handling issue?

The simple answer is no, you can not make gaff coins sound like non gaffed coins. You can make a piece of foil look like a frying pan, but it's never going to have all the same properties. The best that can be done is sound can be deadened.

@malaki" That would make sense (glued vs fuzed), thanks for the explanation .I guess my question would then be "which manufacturers do which? I'm sure fusing is more expensive, but you end up with a more impressive result, in my opinion. I do have to disagree on the cut-down coins, though. I have a non-expanded hopping half set, and the two cut-down coins sound completely normal. Perhaps a deeper analysis would indicate the pitch was off slightly, but it's not significant, at least certainly not compared to the thunk the Sun/Moon insert makes.

@Joshua: I have evidence in my hands that would disagree with your claim. It might not sound exactly like a normal coin, (the pitch isn't quite the same) but the sound is not at all deadened or unreal. Of course, it also depends on which gaff coin, as I mentioned in my first post.

@countrymaven: No, I'm not missing the point. I'm perfectly aware that some of these things *can* be avoided and gotten around. However, it's possible to be even *more* deceptive if you can handle the gaff just as freely as you would a normal coin, being able to do a click pass with it, rather than having to use baby gloves so it doesn't thunk, or being able to flip it in the air. There's a whole special gimmick someone came up with so you could do this convincingly with a coin that isn't there (Tobias Dostal's Ping), so I'm sure that something someone might want to do.

And I'm not talking a 1% pitch change, like you seem to think. Go find a S&S and tell me the insert sounds anything like a real coin. Sure, that's not one I'd flip, but it makes my point. I understand how to mix/switch coins, but that wasn't my original question at all.