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jakeg
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Andy ... There is a specific reason to put the flower under your arm. It works well in the routining. Are you using the table in your flower routine? You do with the cups.
My question should have been : is there any reason to put the wand under your arm when you have a table that you are using for all of the other props in the c & b routine? It doesn't add to the routine or enable any moves, so why dio it?
Matthew Crabtree
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On Sep 26, 2016, jakeg wrote:
Andy ... There is a specific reason to put the flower under your arm. It works well in the routining. Are you using the table in your flower routine? You do with the cups.
My question should have been : is there any reason to put the wand under your arm when you have a table that you are using for all of the other props in the c & b routine? It doesn't add to the routine or enable any moves, so why dio it?


As it has been pointed out MANY times now. IT is natural. Even with a something to set it down on. Watch people in the real world. Even at the counter people will put things under their arms to free up both hands. The problem is you are thinking like a magician and not like a person. Somewhere long the way magicians got to the point of getting so caught up in the Vernon touch essay, they forgot how to really look at things from a non magician point of view. In the race to make everything not a move, they have over complicated everything and have gone back the other direction. Just take a Saturday and hang out in the mall or a book store or even the local library. Watch people. You will find that many things that magicians think look unnatural are things people do all the time.

So lets break down the cups and balls and wand under the arm. You are working from behind a table. The wand is off to the left or right. You start into it. You have a flow to the act. balls come in to play balls go out of play. The wand is now picked up you do some vanishes with the wand. You might go into a a set f moved where you need the wand in a second. Now to keep the flow of everything going and to free up your hands to do a move you stick the wand under your arm. It is more natural than to break the flow of the routine to find a spot to set the wand down and to pick it up then set it down and pick it up. No one and I mean NO ONE watching you is thinking :well he is odd sticking that under his arm."
jakeg
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I think that we're going in circles now. It still looks awkward to me, and I still don't why someone would choreograph their routine that way when it serves no practical purpose. By the way, reading Gazzo, I notice that he coreographs where and how the wand should sit on the table. I personally prefer that method, so that's what I'll use.
Enjoyed the conversation fellas. Thank you.
Matthew Crabtree
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On Sep 26, 2016, jakeg wrote:
I think that we're going in circles now. It still looks awkward to me, and I still don't why someone would choreograph their routine that way when it serves no practical purpose. By the way, reading Gazzo, I notice that he coreographs where and how the wand should sit on the table. I personally prefer that method, so that's what I'll use.
Enjoyed the conversation fellas. Thank you.


It might look unnatural to you but you see it in every day live by all types of people from little kids to business people to people at sporting events. Know why Gazzo choreographs where he is going to put the wand on the table? To keep the flow going. The same reason people do a natural action like putting something under their arm to free up both hands. The purpose of the move it to free up both hands. It is not unpractical.
jakeg
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When was the last time you sat at a table and saw anybody put something under their arm. I can see it if you are walking around, but not when you are sitting, or staring up against a table that's holding the other props that you are using. The table is usually empty except for the cups, so there is more than ample room for the wand.
tonsofquestions
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Jake - why are you keep pushing this?
Everyone else has said they think it's natural, you don't. That's fine.
I provided an offer of a story you could make up, if you wanted to.
You said you were done with the topic:
Quote:
Enjoyed the conversation fellas. Thank you.


Others will put it under their arm if they feel like it. You don't have to put it under your arm if you don't want want to.
You're not going to convince them otherwise, and they're obviously not going to convince you.

So why are you still arguing the point?
ZachDavenport
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If you don't like it, don't do it, but it really doesn't matter. At the end of the day, they will not have the slightest recollection that the wand ever came into contact with your under arm. There is no way that having a stick in your arm can move balls from cup to cup, and much less put an orange under them.
Reality is a real killjoy.
jakeg
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Zachary, you're 100% right .... But, I'm questioning why you should put it under your arm when you have a table in front of you, and, it really has nothing to do with the routine one way or the other. Was it because one of our gurus did it that way? So far, I haven't seen an answer.
Lawrens Godon
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Quote:
On Sep 26, 2016, jakeg wrote: My question should have been : is there any reason to put the wand under your arm when you have a table that you are using for all of the other props in the c & b routine? It doesn't add to the routine or enable any moves, so why dio it?


Putting the wand under the arm is essential to my routine.
Mind you, I did devised moves using the wand in armpit position...
jakeg
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On Sep 27, 2016, Lawrens Godon wrote:

Putting the wand under the arm is essential to my routine.
Mind you, I did devised moves using the wand in armpit position...

That, makes sense to me.
Matthew Crabtree
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On Sep 26, 2016, jakeg wrote:
When was the last time you sat at a table and saw anybody put something under their arm. I can see it if you are walking around, but not when you are sitting, or staring up against a table that's holding the other props that you are using. The table is usually empty except for the cups, so there is more than ample room for the wand.


Like I said more than a few times, watch someone at the counter of a 7-11 or the likes where they got a coffee and a paper and got their change back. The coffee (a cup) goes on the counter the news paper goes under the arm. Freeing up both hands. The counter is empty save for the coffee but the paper still goes under the arm. Women do with with small purses. The get out the lip stick and mirror and the bag goes under the arm even though there is table or counter space free. it is an everyday thing that ALL types of people do.

Quote:
On Sep 27, 2016, jakeg wrote:
Zachary, you're 100% right .... But, I'm questioning why you should put it under your arm when you have a table in front of you, and, it really has nothing to do with the routine one way or the other. Was it because one of our gurus did it that way? So far, I haven't seen an answer.


Not seen an answer? Like I said before, people do it as not to break the flow. You need to make your act have a nice flow. You are not always working on the same table or same bar top. You need to know where that wand is in a hurry and ALWAYS putting it in the same place time after time after time helps you keep your pace going. IT keeps you from fumbling around. it keeps little hands from grabbing. There are tons of reasons. I'm sorry if you don't grasp the reasoning behind it.
Mobius303
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Watch people everywhere just like Mathew said. You wil see peoples habits that will seem natural to them and you have not observed before.
jakeg
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On Oct 8, 2016, Mobius303 wrote:
Watch people everywhere just like Mathew said. You wil see peoples habits that will seem natural to them and you have not observed before.

Here I go again ...
I have never seen a person sitting at a restaurant table, or, behind a desk, or at a work table with space on it stick anything in their arm pit to hold it, and with the exception of the Cups, never saw a magician stick a prop in his arm pit when it was not used that way in the routine. This doesn't only apply to proper wands, but to sharpie pens, butter knives and other makeshift wands.
Yesterday, I wrote to Bob White asking him the same question. On his instructional DVD, I noticed that he always rested his wand on the table, except during his routine.
I just want to know why. So far, I haven't heard back.
Dick Oslund
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On Sep 21, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote:
I'm NOT a "C & B: guy, but, I do remember that when Roy Benson published his "Benson Bowl Routine"" in "PHOENIX" in the early '50s he stressed putting his wand under his arm. When I'm more awake, I can dig out the "PHOENIX" INDEX for an exact date. I don't know if the practice began long before that, however.


Sorry Jakeg, I've not had an opportunity to dig into the "PHOENIX", but, I will! (You are intriguing me, too!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Matthew Crabtree
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Quote:
On Oct 8, 2016, jakeg wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 8, 2016, Mobius303 wrote:
Watch people everywhere just like Mathew said. You wil see peoples habits that will seem natural to them and you have not observed before.

Here I go again ...
I have never seen a person sitting at a restaurant table, or, behind a desk, or at a work table with space on it stick anything in their arm pit to hold it, and with the exception of the Cups, never saw a magician stick a prop in his arm pit when it was not used that way in the routine. This doesn't only apply to proper wands, but to sharpie pens, butter knives and other makeshift wands.
Yesterday, I wrote to Bob White asking him the same question. On his instructional DVD, I noticed that he always rested his wand on the table, except during his routine.
I just want to know why. So far, I haven't heard back.


Again...

I have said this a few times. Watch someone at a counter at a coffee shop, 7-11, news stand etc etc. People put stuff under their arm even though there is counter space. It is something that happens all the time. Like I said just a post or so ago.

Here is a reason why magicians who do the same show time after time do what they do. They have to make sure that the moves they do work if they are sitting standings large table small table. They have to make sure they are not looking around for a place to set something or looking for where they laid it down.

Here is my post on this from a couple of weeks ago...

Quote:
On Sep 27, 2016, Matthew Crabtree wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 26, 2016, jakeg wrote:
When was the last time you sat at a table and saw anybody put something under their arm. I can see it if you are walking around, but not when you are sitting, or staring up against a table that's holding the other props that you are using. The table is usually empty except for the cups, so there is more than ample room for the wand.


Like I said more than a few times, watch someone at the counter of a 7-11 or the likes where they got a coffee and a paper and got their change back. The coffee (a cup) goes on the counter the news paper goes under the arm. Freeing up both hands. The counter is empty save for the coffee but the paper still goes under the arm. Women do with with small purses. The get out the lip stick and mirror and the bag goes under the arm even though there is table or counter space free. it is an everyday thing that ALL types of people do.

Quote:
On Sep 27, 2016, jakeg wrote:
Zachary, you're 100% right .... But, I'm questioning why you should put it under your arm when you have a table in front of you, and, it really has nothing to do with the routine one way or the other. Was it because one of our gurus did it that way? So far, I haven't seen an answer.


Not seen an answer? Like I said before, people do it as not to break the flow. You need to make your act have a nice flow. You are not always working on the same table or same bar top. You need to know where that wand is in a hurry and ALWAYS putting it in the same place time after time after time helps you keep your pace going. IT keeps you from fumbling around. it keeps little hands from grabbing. There are tons of reasons. I'm sorry if you don't grasp the reasoning behind it.
jakeg
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Matthew, there are many cup workers that do not use their underarm and choose to use the table top instead. Not everyone puts the wand under their arm, so it's a matter of personal preference. As long as you choreograph for the wand, it doesn't really matter where you put it. The underarm, WHEN YOU ARE AT A TABLE, looks very awkward to me.
Julie
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[quote]On Oct 8, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 21, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote:
I'm NOT a "C & B: guy, but, I do remember that when Roy Benson published his "Benson Bowl Routine"" in "PHOENIX" in the early '50s he stressed putting his wand under his arm. When I'm more awake, I can dig out the "PHOENIX" INDEX for an exact date....


As I recall it is also explained (with credit to Benson) in Bruce Elliot's CLASSIC SECRETS OF MAGIC book.

Julie
Matthew Crabtree
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On Oct 8, 2016, jakeg wrote:
Matthew, there are many cup workers that do not use their underarm and choose to use the table top instead. Not everyone puts the wand under their arm, so it's a matter of personal preference. As long as you choreograph for the wand, it doesn't really matter where you put it. The underarm, WHEN YOU ARE AT A TABLE, looks very awkward to me.


Okay let me try this last more time. Yes it matters where you put it if you do not use the same table over and over like someone who does house parties and other gigs where they use what ever table or bar top is provided for them. You have to know where things are at all times. Knowing where that wand is in with out having to look keeps the flow going. It's not even a pro vs amateur thing. The guy or gal doing the cups and balls for a friend on a random surface still needs to know where that wand is. Not everyone drags a table around with them just for cups and balls. So they make sure they know where that wand is for that phase where they need the wand.

Also its not just cups and balls workers who put the wand under their arm for reasons. Miguel Angel Gea has a coin routine where he places it under his arm for reasons. We get it you don't like it and think that guys who do it for a good reason are wrong. You need to let it go. It's a natural act people do it in every day life. I'm sure there things you do that many of us would do is odd but you feel is perfectly natural.
jakeg
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I never said that those who put the wand under their arm are wrong. I'm asking why put it under your arm when sitting behind a table. There are many cup workers who do use the table. Not all use their underarms. Are you suggesting that they are wrong, or that there is only one way to do it? I don't think that is your intention. I'm only trying to find out why workers who put all of their other props on the table, put the wand under their arm. You have the same situation with any of your props. You have to know where the are. So, what's the difference between putting a wand down, or any other prop down that you plan on going back to.
I did not want to make this thread confrontational. I asked what I thought was a simple question, and I gave my reason for asking it. It was not a criticism. I could care less how you choose to do it.
Steve Burton
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It's because the wand might roll off the table if it's simply placed on it and under the arm is the shortest distance between the hand and the wand. It's quicker to grab it from under the arm than to reach onto the table. Also you need to look at the table in order to pick up the wand. When it's under the arm there is no need to look down to find it. It's a faster and more sure method to retake the wand after freeing the hands.
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