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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » C & B Wand (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jakeg
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Thanks Steve. Makes sense.
Matthew Crabtree
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On Oct 9, 2016, jakeg wrote:
I never said that those who put the wand under their arm are wrong. I'm asking why put it under your arm when sitting behind a table. There are many cup workers who do use the table. Not all use their underarms. Are you suggesting that they are wrong, or that there is only one way to do it? I don't think that is your intention. I'm only trying to find out why workers who put all of their other props on the table, put the wand under their arm. You have the same situation with any of your props. You have to know where the are. So, what's the difference between putting a wand down, or any other prop down that you plan on going back to.
I did not want to make this thread confrontational. I asked what I thought was a simple question, and I gave my reason for asking it. It was not a criticism. I could care less how you choose to do it.


And I have given the same answer over and over you keep seeming to ignore. It matters where you put it if you do not use the same table over and over like someone who does house parties and other gigs where they use what ever table or bar top is provided for them. You have to know where things are at all times. Knowing where that wand is in with out having to look keeps the flow going. It's not even a pro vs amateur thing. The guy or gal doing the cups and balls for a friend on a random surface still needs to know where that wand is. Not everyone drags a table around with them just for cups and balls. So they make sure they know where that wand is for that phase where they need the wand. The cups are in the same spot over and over but there might not be enough room for the wand. So you put it some place where you know where it is. This is the same answer that Steve gave but with more details. Why you are okay with that and not an answer from someone who does it this way because he has run into not using the same surface all the time and needs to know where the wand is, is beyond me.
Julie
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I have a nice looking multi-grain wooden wand with engraved brass tips that came to me from another magician's collection. This one has one flatter section that will rest on the table preventing the wand from rolling. An interesting feature is that this tiny area that sits on the table is virtually unnoticeable.

I've often wondered why more wands aren't made this way...

Julie
jakeg
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G' morning Matt
I do understand your posts, but I think that the confusion lies either in my mind, the way I wrote the question, or, the way you read it). Here are thre main points
1. The worker is sitting at a table, and I assume that you are using 3 cups
2. The C&B take a lot of real estate to perform, so the space has to be big enough.
3. Even if the the performer uses different places to perform, the placement of the wand does not have to put in a single location for the routine to work smoothly, and really can be put anywhere that the performer chooses, as long as (he) is familiar with doing the routine with that placement.
4. I've seen many alternate wands put underneath an arm that are clearly, in my eyes, out of place there:. These include Sharpie pens, butter knives, and other utensils etc
5. I am not criticizing anyone for the way they choose to store their wand, I'm asking why choose your arm when you're sitting at a table. It's your show. I'm happy to watch it anyway you choose to perform it.
6. I'm only glad that I didn't ask why use the tip off move when the natural move would be to just pick the ball off the top of the cup. (Although it is pretty.) I might have started a revolt.
Matthew Crabtree
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2016, jakeg wrote:

3. Even if the the performer uses different places to perform, the placement of the wand does not have to put in a single location for the routine to work smoothly, and really can be put anywhere that the performer chooses, as long as (he) is familiar with doing the routine with that placement.


To Number 3. It matters where you put the wand as to keep the flow of the routine going. If you normally work on a 17 inch by 24 inch pad but today you are sitting at a table for the bride and groom at a wedding gig and only have a close up pad that is just large enough to hold the cups. To keep track of the wand and to know where it is and to keep it from rolling away or you sticking your hand into someones plate you need to know where that wand. A normal and natural place that people put things when they needs both hands is... wait for it... under their arm. Yes it does need to be in the single location as to keep you from looking like a fool trying to figure out why the wand is not where you put it because the table is leaning slightly to one side or you don't have enough room. It matters.

Quote:
On Oct 13, 2016, jakeg wrote:

6. I'm only glad that I didn't ask why use the tip off move when the natural move would be to just pick the ball off the top of the cup. (Although it is pretty.) I might have started a revolt


Not everyone uses the same moves in their routines. The Tip Over move shows a few things

A) It "show" the tipping hand empty since a hand holding something can only hold one thing
B) It shows the the ball is clearly going into the catching hand
C) It shows the cup had nothing under it.

Then again not everyone does the set of phases and moves with the cups and balls. It is one of those great effects where you can truly make it your own. Want to do it standing? Great. Want to only ever do it sitting? Great. Want to use two cup not three? How about only one? Three phases? Four? Five? Ten? Go for it. Do not like a set of moves? Guess what you don't have to do them.
jakeg
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Matt .... as far as your last paragraph is concerned, that's pretty much what drew me to the cups in the first place. That, and their history. I probably have seen a number of routines on tv, but the one that stands out the most in my mind, was Gali Gali. There was more magic happening on his table than anything I had ever seen. That was a long time ago.
Dick Oslund
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On Sep 21, 2016, Dick Oslund wrote:
I'm NOT a "C & B: guy, but, I do remember that when Roy Benson published his "Benson Bowl Routine"" in "PHOENIX" in the early '50s he stressed putting his wand under his arm. When I'm more awake, I can dig out the "PHOENIX" INDEX for an exact date. I don't know if the practice began long before that, however.



I found it!!!

The Roy Benson routine! It's in 'PHOENIX' #156 (1948) on the front page. It's titled: "IT'S MAGIC" --ROY BENSON. The routine fills 3 pages, with illustrations.
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jakeg
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That's great, Dick. Good going. How in the heck could you remember where it was?
Dick Oslund
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I usta beat Harry Lorrayne, memorizing social security numbers!!! --Then an Italian had his in roman numerals. Heqq

If I can remember your address I'll mail you a copy!
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Matthew Crabtree
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One last thing on this. One I had forgotten til just last night. David Roth talks about the Indian street magicians and how they work surrounded. They too keep their wants under their arm because it is the shortest distance between the hand that vanished the ball and the wand.
Oz62
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Wow, I was looking for something completely different but got cought reading the whole thread Smile

Jake, I agree that having an object under your arm does not look natural if you have a table in front of you, AND I if you're doing nothing. Remember that the magician is performing at the time, and imo it is completely natural (and in some cases more convenient) to have the wand under your arm during a performance. You put the newspaper under your arm to put sugar into your coffee, which is as natural as putting the wand under your arm to momentarily use your hands to do something else. Sitting at a table with a newspaper, (or a wand under your arm) looks unnatural or nonsense.
jakeg
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Hey Oz, I think it would be fine if you used your underarm all the during the routine, or, you had an obvious reason to do it at that time.
During practice I tried it a few times. It felt more comfortable taking the wand, especially from a standing position, but to me, it was like changing your grip on a deck just before doing a sleight .
I'm really reluctant to open this can of worms. It's obvious that a lot of people are adamant about their moves. I find it more interesting to tear the routines apart to ask why.
Matthew Crabtree
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But you should change your grip on the deck before a sleight. No one is saying keeping the wand under your arm the whole time just in the part where you use the wand.
TheAmbitiousCard
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If you introduce your routine away from the table and there's no other place to put it while you do some gesture with your hands,
the underarm placement would seem perfectly reasonable.
That should be enough to give you license to do it later. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

Just like placing a linking ring around one's head. Just another place to put your stuff.

If you make it seem normal at the start, and you do it for no other reason than convenience, it should appear normal throughout.
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jakeg
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On Nov 25, 2016, TheAmbitiousCard wrote:
If you introduce your routine away from the table and there's no other place to put it while you do some gesture with your hands,
the underarm placement would seem perfectly reasonable.
That should be enough to give you license to do it later. Personally I wouldn't worry about it.

Just like placing a linking ring around one's head. Just another place to put your stuff.

If you make it seem normal at the start, and you do it for no other reason than convenience, it should appear normal throughout.


I really like your suggestion, Frank.
My question was; what is the advantage to using your underarm when you are at the table.
Fooling around with it, I found the answer, (I think).

It is more difficult putting the wand down on a flat surface using only one hand when the wand hand is dirty.
I think it's that simple.
TheAmbitiousCard
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If you study "the cylinder and coins" trick you will see a big advantage
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imgic
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Watch David Williamson's lecture on Penguin. He covers his table hopping C&B routine and explains why you'd put your wand there....actually some great logic behind it.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
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