I start 1-8 year old shows - introducing myself - reason why I am there in funny way, then say its my first time doing this today , if I mess up please forgive me ..ect ect
then I stop and say "oh oh" I forgot my magic wand..wait I think its here behind my magic cart and start pulling out something that looks like a wand but when I fully pull it out its something funny, usually kids point at it and laugh at me, I pretend I don't know what is happening.

Every time I get a call for an older kids show I usually turn it down, need tips on how to switch beginning of the show for older kids parties , please...


Thanks for any feedback for those that are truly here to help others.

Thank you,

MagicJac

Jac = Jaime Arana Cardenas

I don't think there is a clear way to just "switch" from one group to the other. 9-14 yr olds are tougher than they used to be. The information age has turned them into tough, cunning young adults whom you would be smart to never underestimate, or speak down to on any level. Not that you would do so intentionally.
Used to be they would call out what they guessed the method was. Now they search for the method, and play the dammn Youtube video while you're performing the trick. (I've seen it happen.)

Sounds to me that if you want to break into that market, you brave soul you, you will need to restructure your show to the point that you won't recognize it as the same show.

If your style is comedy perhaps you could study those who use humor entertain adults. You'll probably need new tricks and routines. Is there really that much demand for magicians for that age group where you live?
I've found that here in NYC the entertainment for that age group tends to be of a more "grown up" nature, Make-up parties, team competition stuff, higher end craft type activities, etc.

David Kaye has written pretty extensively on the psychology of different age groups.

In any event good luck. While I love talking to that age group as they are amazingly smart, I'd rather walk barefoot on broken glass than perform a magic show for them.

On November 6 you made 3 different posts. Danny responded to the post in the table hopping forum, about high end restaurants, even though your post was, IMO, almost indecipherable. Danny was very kind; he told you what needs to happen.

Next, you told us all about your marital difficulties, and asked for help in training a parakeet, in Polly Wants a Cracker. Bill Hegbli, directed you to possible help, and, then pointed out that your first priority should be to your children, and, your wife.

Later, I found THIS post, in which you describe your opening for kids ages one through seven, which I think is rather poor. (You begin by apologizing in advance "in case I mess up" because "it's my first time doing this today". You couldn't start with a poorer introduction than that! In fact, a good amateur would never even think of saying things like that!

Then, you ask for tips on doing a show for older kids, from "those that are truly here to help others". From your description, IMO, you haven't got a show for infants!

Many here are willing to help others, BUT. WE AREN'T HERE TO DO YOUR WORK FOR YOU! It's obvious, to me at least, that you have spent some money on props, and, don't have the slightest idea of how to use those props. Did you learn how to do a show from YOU TUBE?

You need to READ books like Tarbell, to learn principles. You need to read books like Ken Weber's "Maximum Entertainment" to learn presentation. "ect ect" (I'm quoting you! The correct abbreviation of "et cetera" is "etc", not, "ect".) You need to study how to communicate with good English. (cf. your post particularly on table hopping, and, both of the other posts.}

I have had the opportunity of mentoring young magicians like DOUG HENNING ("THE MAGIC SHOW") and, BOB MCALLISTER (WONDERAMA, and, "KIDS ARE PEOPLE TOO"). Over the past 50 + years, I have mentored many young guys who are now successful, full time professional performers, and, many who are now successful part time professionals.

The first thing that I told them was: "I can't teach you ANYTHING! I can only help you to learn! They listened, studied, and, practiced not only sleight of hand, but, also theory (Fitzkee, Maskelynne & Devant) stage craft (Nelms) and, especially, presentation (Ken Weber, et al).

I agree with Bill! Your family must come first!

This question comes up all the time. . . how to perform for older kids:
be entertaining yourself, and have an entertaining act that does not insult your audiences intelligence.

Wow Dick Oslund you sure spend a lot of time researching me, never felt so special - thank for that, IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL HAPPY keep researching me all you want at least I got you paying attention right? That was a trick on its own. Look closely -think of a number - now check your email.

The Ambitious Card - Thank you for your feedback.

That age is a totally a different animal. Treat them as they were adults. NYCTwister is correct in saying that they will all have their phones with them to google everything, so the important thing is to focus on patter,routine structure and entertainment. With this age, I dress in dress slacks, shirt and tie with dress vest, nothing like my younger kid shows. If this is a show where I performed for a younger sibling, I will ask in my warm-up if anyone had seen my "kids" show. Then I will do something like 3 coin fly or 6 bill repeat. This seperates the two shows and also tells them that I will not be treating them like kids.

Thank you a show by Joe..awesome feedback. You another one of the true ones.

Jac, I looked at your signature to see if there were any pictures of you working but there isn’t a web site or anything.

Interesting thread. I agree with A Show By Joe on treating them as they were adults, nowadays , with the internet, kids mature up very fast.
I also suggest watching social media or tv shows that is popular among that age group you will get a feel for it.

I believe that Silly Billy covers the idea of different routines / presentations for different ages, in his book "Seriously Silly." (Not to be confused with his newest book, "Super Sized Silly").

Also, I seem to recall that the idea of different routines / presentations for different ages was also covered in an older book by David Fiscus, called "The Birthday Magician's Handbook" (first published around 1980, I think). I think there's also a new, revised edition available.

So, there's a couple of books you can seek out and read.

- Donald

The most important transition from little kids to an older audience is "your presence".
You need to be an entertaining type individual for anyone to care about watching your tricks.

Looking for better tricks and/or more age appropriate tricks won't help you, if you are a bore.
You, yourself, need to be worth watching. Are you?


I can't remember who said...
"Before you can entertain people with a deck of cards, you should be able to entertain people without one".

Same rule applies. Just substitute "a deck of cards" with whatever gets you to understand the concept.

If you're looking for tricks to solve this problem, you're looking in the wrong place.

No, I didn't spend any time "researching" you, and, you didn't "get me paying attention" (I am always paying attention. --so, that was not a trick "on its own".) I just skim through threads whose "titles" appear to be interesting. I am always happy. Reading your posts certainly did not "make me happy", and, I haven't the slightest intention of reading any more of your posts. I am not interested in numerical mental tricks. I check my email several times a day. --You can't email me. You don't have my email address. (Even an old guy like I am, knows THAT!)

I certainly agree with Ambitious Card's comments, above.

"Those who think that magic consists of doing tricks, are strangers to magic. Tricks are only the crude residue from which the lifeblood of magic has been drained." --S.H. Sharpe (Sharpe was not a great PERFORMER, but, he UNDERSTOOD magic.)

"I must insist that tricks are but tools. This eagerness to add new tools to the workshop, at the expense of learning how to use the tools we already possess, definitely results in overcrowded workshops, but unskilled artisans." --Dariel Fitzkee,
"The Trick Brain", pp 308, 309

"Those who give themselves to ready practice before they have learned the theory, resemble sailors who go to sea in a ship without a rudder." --Leonardo Da Vinci

Dick Oslund - do you have a video or you performing?

Nice quote Leonardo Da Vinci

"Those who give themselves to ready practice before they have learned the theory, resemble sailors who go to sea in a ship without a rudder." --Leonardo Da Vinci

Magic is example example for this quote, I am definitely experiencing what a lot of CEO's have told me, you can plan and plan and plan and plan and practice and practice and practice and then plan some more, you eventually need to jump into the waters otherwise there is no reason for planning, you will fail. Failure is a must for any lesson if you treat it as part of the lesson there is no problem. In magic this rule applies - the greatest out there have failed at one point.

You also mention overcrowded workshops, but unskilled artisans??

Do you feel you are a better human being because you know magic or are better than other magicians, does this give you great relief? A lot of adults hate magicians due to this reason - they have this concept that a magician just wants to show off.

I am sorry I am getting of focus, was originaliy looking for a way to change my script from smaller kids to older kids.

Thanks to all the great other performers here who have helped.

Jaime

When I can find a free hour to decipher your post which suffers from poor or no punctuation, and "run on sentences", plus misquotes, I may respond.

Yes, I do have a dvd of several elementary school programs. I don't have a dvd of the high school program. The programs on the dvd were taped by friends who were visiting. They are not "studio quality productions". They show real youngsters (K through 6th grade) and, their response to the program. Abbott's, Denny & Lee, Magic Inc. and, FAB Magic, all sell them.

I also wrote a four hundred page book, which is selling in four continents. The above dealers have the book and dvd.

You should be able to perform for all ages and not have one or two scripts but the ability to engage with the audience. This comes with experience.
Common sense tells you not to go up to an adult, shake a rattle and say Coochie Coochie Coo. Likewise you wouldn’t go to a kid and and a complicated math problem.

I really don’t think the original question has much to do with performing magic as much as it does with dealing with people.

Well said, Jay!

Great Dick and Jay, now we are starting to connect..my apologies Dick. My grammar is not the best. English is my second language, glad I don't have to write during a show ! Lol, joke is on me.

Jay ..correct question is about dealing with people..been doing same routine for the past 15 years...magic for 30 years...but had the courage to start professionally 15 years ago.

But have only done kids shows..ages 1 to 9, have done the older kids shows a few times and found out , I did pretty good..but still turn them down when I get those requests. Mind you do have some pretty good sleight of hands and good close up bits..just need to tailor show more towards that crowd. When I do my close up bit after each show..and adults come up to watch...they love it..those that are not afraid to have fun. Any how I start kids show after my intro..saying this is my first time doing this...opps I forgot my magic wand..wait think is here behind my magic cart..all this is a setup for 1. First effect.. 2. If you do make mistake (the unplanned one) then I have scripts that follow that...so begging by pulling out my wand which looks like one when they start seeying it..when I finish pulling it out its a funny object...kids immediately laugh at me...this is what gets me going..helpa my anxiety amd so forth..for older kids show..i cannot start this way..looking for something funny but magical for older kids...thanks all who have contributed here ..everyone thank you Dick thank you as well.

Looking for help still..

I think it's very easy to convince oneself that they are an excellent "kids entertainer" merely by packing a set of "bigger wands", getting toddlers to scream and yell at "look-don't-see" and "what, I can't hear you" for 40 minutes.

Those believing the screaming and yelling = "great magic" will suffer a grim reality when deciding to perform for the older ages where you actually have to be an interesting and entertaining stage presence.

The "interesting" and the "entertaining" don't come from spending money at your favorite magic shop on "better tricks".

Just by what you asking, I guess you can just come out and say something like "since all you guys are older, I am not going to treat you like kids. For example, in my kids shows I would pull coins from their ears, but not you guys. I am going to give coins back." You can then show three coins, or use a flipper w/ a shell and make them disappear one by one. This could be useful if there happens to be kids in the audience who had seen Misers dream before and equate it to a younger age show.

Your apology is accepted. --And, I'm sorry that I had to be a bit abrupt, to get your attention!

I'll try to reply at length, in a day or two.