This a hard one for you to get your rope brains around.

I'm looking for all the ways I can find that could be used to end a routine that is basically comprised of several cut and restored sequences.

Of course the routine could just be ended and the rope thrown out to the audience but these sorts of endings, while fine, can feel like the magician has just decided to stop. In other words, another sequence could be added or taken away and the routine ended the same way. I'm looking for something that feels like an obvious definite final moment.

Knots flying off or being plucked or slid off, while also a fine ending, is not what I'm looking for. There's no doubt such endings can and do work well. With the right script such moments can be emphasised to feel like an ending.... but like I say, they aren't what I'm looking for. (And besides I think any ending of this sort pales in comparison to Mac King's routine. His final moment of his rope routine does have a bigger moment feeling due to the manner in which the rope is chopped up into small pieces and the volume of restorations that appear to happen so cavalierly at one time.)

I rather like Pavel's Crazy knot Finale and have used it in the past. It's really good.... but while novel, surprising and magical it suffers slightly from having an inescapable cutesy feel to it. I always feel this somehow undercuts the punch of the effect as something to end on.

I really don't want to add or introduce any props such as tubes or bags, extra ropes and the like.... and what I have in mind for the routine Would mean no audience participation being involved.

Ideas I've had so far are, shrinking the rope to a small piece, vanishing the rope, changing the rope into something else (what?), stretching it to a ridiculously long length, 'accidentally' picking up the mic lead with the rope (with the scissors) and cutting both and restoring the mic lead. (I have methods for some of these ideas and some, as yet, I don't. But they are all at the moment just ideas)

Anyway, rope-heads, any other ideas, thoughts or suggestions? Anything I've missed or your own fanciful ideas all welcomed?

For decades I have used the "Necklacy" approach often modified with "RemCut"

Each starts with the cord as a necklace with various objects threaded thereon.
After numerous effects using these objects and several C/R's, the full length is restored and retied as a necklace as in the beginning.

For small audiences I am now leaning towards ending with a necklace containing a single object gifted to a participating spectator.

For example, with several small rings in play during the routine (ring on string, coin effects, lInking rings, etc), I tie the cord into a loop and held by a spectator. (nothing on it at all)
A single ring is tossed onto the cord (fully threaded rather than knotted) and this is gifted away, thereby allowing it to be examined.
This ending is "so impossible" that it serves to support earlier effects that might be under mental reconstruction.

Those familiar with the Palfreyman Knot will understand the application with the ring pulled to the bottom of the loop and apparently linked on there
to be actually on the tied loop.

The key is that all C/R effects are suspect, so ending with something that "closes the door" should be considered.

Ending for the cut and restored rope is easy. Remove the knot or pop the knot off and throw it into the audience. Hold the restored rope between the hands and spread apart as fare as you can reach or the restored rope will allow. You are in the perfect applause position. It is a visual ending. The audience should applaud at this point if you hold the arms position a few seconds.

Anything done with the restored piece at this point will detract from the restoration effect on the audience, in my opinion. If you can't use the rope any longer, just toss it into the audience as well. Maybe with a humorous comment along the lines of what they can do with it after their extensive inspection.

I think throwing the knots out is a very strong ending for a restoration:

Sealegs wrote: "I really don't want to add or introduce any props such as tubes or bags, extra ropes and the like."

Ed wrote: "A single ring is tossed onto the cord..."

Err...Okaaay... thanks Ed..... maybe I should have been even more specific than I was... ?

Sealegs also wrote: "Knots flying off or being plucked or slid off, while also a fine ending, is not what I'm looking for. There's no doubt such endings can and do work well... ...but like I say, they aren't what I'm looking for."

Bill wrote: "Remove the knot or pop the knot off and throw it into the audience."

Pop wrote: "I think throwing the knots out is a very strong ending for a restoration."

I have to admit, I'm really not sure how to respond to these suggestions without sounding like I'm being disingenuous, upbraiding, or grouchy. I can only assume that anyone asking you guys not to get them a Christmas present this year will be getting one anyway.

So.... let me acknowledge and thank you all for having taken the time to respond... and let me also try and gloss over that your suggestions are for the very things I specifically mentioned I'm not looking for.

All suggestions welcomed though.... any other thoughts?

(other than that this post runs the risk of making me sound like an ungracious ingrate when in fact I'm a lovely warm fuzzy human being)

I think the ending should be the culminating proof of what you are demonstrating. What is it that you want to prove with your rope trick? What is the magic you want to do? To end with something other than a cut and restored, like shrinking rope is really shifting to a different effect--cut and restored mic cord could be seen as a further and maybe ultimate proof.

Really, the ending needs to satisfy what the rest of the effect pointed to--in Mac King's routine, the final restoration is the most impressive "cut and restored."

The idea that, "the ending should be the culminating proof of what you are demonstrating." is a good basis to establish what you are doing and why you are doing it. That's a very useful structural ploy so thanks for suggesting it Pop.

Mac King's routine, as you say, does this in an impressive way regarding the cut and restored. It takes the cutting and restoring to the extreme.

This idea also means that if one changes the context of what it is one is demonstrating a different effect could then fit as being a culminating proof of the routine without shifting the effect.

If the thing being demonstrated is, for instance, that you can cause or manipulate the rope to behave unnaturally, at your command, in any way you chose... then any transformation that feels like it has weight, such as stretching or shrinking the rope, could, in theory, act as a culminating demonstration of this.

The question you ask... ."What is it that you want to prove with your rope trick?" is a very good one.

To be honest I was coming at the idea for a routine from the opposite direction. For me, many rope routines aspire to culminate in a 'Mac King' strength of ending but many fail to achieve this. So I was looking to use the ending as the starting point while also striving for something a bit different from the norm. (again this is a quality that Mac's routine has) Once I had a real magically strong, hopefully slightly different ending to a cut and restored sequence my intention was to then go about constructing that sequence and developing a rationale and routine that leads to that end point.

While I can see the attraction and strength of not shifting the effect I don't think it's a rule that needs to be set in stone.... David Williamson's ring on rope routine abandons the ring on rope premise in its final phase and that still feels like a complete routine.

But irrespective of that point.... it's undoubtedly a very helpful presentational notion and structure to have in mind. Thank you for that Pop. It's mentioning such things and asking these fundamental questions that can; send one off in a different direction; or allow for things that might have not fitted to fall into place; or otherwise to give focus to what, where and how one can move forward to the most effective ending. (and beginning and middle too)

So many ideas that can confuse the total effect. If performing a cut and restored effect, and the restoration is diverted or eliminated, and is taken a different direction, then is not the same as the "cliff hanger effect". It is much like Mac King's routine when I seen him at the local Comedy Club years ago. He put it off until the end of his act, but I was then unsettled during the rest of his act. It was like a running gag, that never ended and I felt, what?, why?, huh?; and did not enjoy many of the following effects as much as I should have during the show.

Williamson is much the same way, with his antics, and interrupts the routine constantly. Again this was unsettling for me as a spectator.

Both these performers are real showman in their own style and right. One can enjoy their antics and patter, but that does not mean the audience is fully not thinking where is all this taking me to on his journey.

As for diverting to other effects before the climax of the C&R, and doing other rope effects, this could be confusing as well.

I usually do 3 rope effects in row, and pick up a new set of rope each time. This discussion now makes me thing, would it be better to have a spool of rope, and remove the needed length each time from the spool. As audience members may think that each set is "tricked or gimmicked" in some way.

As with most magic, I believe it is the performer's patter and personality that will direct the audience in the direction he wants them to go. So he guides them along the journey he wants them to follow. Sometimes this is the most difficult part of creating a complete routine or act.

In contrast, Williamson's and King's routines, jerks the audience along, which in my opinion, is not the best solution. It is their personalities that prevail, and allow this to happen over the actual magic effect being demonstrated. That's how I see it, anyway.

As far as Pavel's Krazy Knots, when I seen Karroll Fox present it as an MC effect. Me and the whole audience gasps and laughed, when that bundle dropped to the floor.

I end my rope routine with a sudden surprise vanish.
As with any routine where the audience focus gets intensely fixated on one small item, to simply and clearly vanish the item brings a big surprise - and a very clear end!

The late great Bob Lewis, Banjo player and magician created a nice rope effect called, "Idiot Rope Trick", use to perform in back in the 1960's.

Zig Zag a length of rope in on hand, have spectator hold the ends sticking from each side of your fist with the rope. Have the spectator pull on the ends, and the rope does not extend. Remove your from around the rope, the spectator is pulling on a six inch length of rope. Your hands are empty.

http://www.magicinc.net/idiotropetrick.aspx

Yeah Bill!

Bob was a very dear friend. His timing and delivery was "exquisite". Although I've "played" with it, the "IDIOT" ROPE TRICK never made it into my program. I still wish that I could find a way to use it. --It has that "O. Henry finish" that I cherish.

I respected Bob so much that I "gave" him my "Norwegian YOYO" rope bit, that he used for years for his walk off. I "inherited" his old folding Opera hat when he died.

"a hard one for you to get your rope brains around. "

Ok, but I'll toss in a consideration - In Over Your Head.

This is not just an ending, but a full routine, with a unique ending.
It has an interesting ending of not tossing the rope to the audience, but tossing many bits of rope behind the helper.

The routine is a comedy, and is a combination of a cut and restored rope & sponge balls over your head. The audience see's the comedy, the helper sees some amazing magic.

John

Lets not start with "In Over Your Head" booklet again. I have done extensive research for that booklet, and they guy is now more of a motivational speaker then a magician. By extensive I mean a week on the Internet looking for it and the creator. I did find him, and when I went back a month later, the website was no longer up. He does not want to be found, and mentioning it only brings up unanswered questions of where to find it.

It can't be that great anyway, as no one ever says they perform it, but say it is great when the originator lectured and performed it. So it looks more like it is the creator's trick and personality that makes it so good.

Thanks for the warning, I already do Paper Balls over the head, no need to replace it with Sponge Balls. Now I understand the meaning of the title.

Everyone always refer to as a rope trick, well if it also incorporates sponge balls, then it is a rope and ball trick. Not just a rope trick. Just love it when people leave out important information like that.

Bill:

I didn't state things quite right; let me clarify, In Over Your Head, is a rope trick. It uses rope and scissors, only. My reference to SBOH was not because it uses sponge balls, but because of what you do with the rope (so it has some of the elements of SBOH, as you seem to be thinking).

In regard to the quality of the routine, sadly I never worked it up, so I can't address the impact on the audience, but I have MANY effects that fit in that category. I bought this in 2011, I think from someone on the Café, and bought it because of the good reviews on the use of misdirection for the effect. I have no knowledge of who is selling this "new", nor of the creator's whereabouts.

John

Bill, Steve Bedwell can be easily found from a google search. He's the first entry that crops up. He doesn't perform as a magician anymore though and doesn't sell the products he has created either.

"In over your head" is indeed a terrific routine. One of the best constructed I've seen. It's this, rather than it being the 'creators trick and personality' that make it so effective as a performance piece. (not that Steve doesn't perform it well and have an engaging personality )

While, from a handling point of view, it's not hard to do, stage awareness and communicating clearly with the audience via actions rather than words are required skills to get the best from the routine. This and the relative scarcity of the booklet are, I suspect, the reasons it's not performed as widely as it one might expect.

Getting a copy of the routine shouldn't be too hard... but you'd have to look to the 2nd hand market. I saw one for sale just a few weeks ago at a magic 'car boot sale' here in the UK.

As John has clarified, Bill misunderstood John's post regarding the routine including any sponge balls. It doesn't, it's a multi phase cut and restored rope routine with an audience member reminiscent in parts to, 'the paper balls over the head' and 'Whit Hayden's ring routine'.

I stopped doing cut and restored and only do PN now but when I did I used an ending similar to Whit's routine.

You threw down a challenge and I thougt I would throw in a few cents.

I agree with most here that doing something different with the rope might destroy the C&R effect. But here are a few ideas.

Say the rope does this because it has a mind of its own. Then tie a knot in it and it unties like serpent rope.

Perhaps hold the rope hanging down and it ties itself in a knot. Do it as a throw away. Then toss the rope into the audience.

Al-ternatly, Once the rope is cut and restored, flip a knot in the rope with one hand and toss it to the audience. It is not real stunning magic but often audiences will remember something like that.

Just some thoughts.

I have found, yes to magicians a multiply routine is fascinating, why because they already know, in most cases, the cut and restored rope, and say or think to themselves, is at all, I know that trick.

To a lay audience, keeping it simple allows them to explain it as, "He had this length of rope and cut it in the center, then tied a the ends together and when the knot dissolved it was fully restored.

In a multiply routine, they will say, "The magician did a lot of things with a piece of rope".

I have had people come up to me after the shows, and say things like this, I like the bottle trick, I like the rope thing you did.

My own mother, may she rest in peace, use to tell me all the time she like the rope trick, but I did 2 rope tricks, never did find out what one she really liked better then the other.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. It's been very helpful.