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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Knots and loops » » Ending for a cut and restored rope sequence (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Pop Haydn
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Quote:
On Feb 12, 2017, RayRannala wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 7, 2016, Pop Haydn wrote:
I think throwing the knots out is a very strong ending for a restoration:

Pop, I love this presentation. I open my act with a four part cut and restored rope piece popping off a knot at the conclusion. It always signifies a clear ending to the piece and let's the audience know it's time to applaud.

I do my act with comedy, but not with the same timing and humor is yours. It is obvious you have honed this over many years. Love your persona and audience connection. I am now a huge fan based on this Mongolian knot piece!

I may borrow some gag lines 😄

Thank you!

Ray




You may borrow as many lines as you wish. The routine has been in print since 1981. The whole routine is available at www.popsmagic.com in downloadable video.
Al Schneider
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Well, here’s another thought.
The goal here seems to be seeking a way to do cut and restored stronger without switching to some other effect.

One of my concerns is that pulling the knot off to show a rope restored kind of reveals how the effect was accomplished. I would rather secretly remove the knot as if the knot blended into the rope.

Another observation is the power of threes. The concept is to present the same effect three times. The audience sees the first and is surprised but suspect some manipulation they did not see. The second time the audience knows what is going to happen and watches for some manipulation. They do not find any. Then they watch it again and can enjoy the magic for they know they will see no manipulation. I believe this makes for strong entertaining magic.

A rule about this is that two or three methods are used. The last is the strongest. But the rule is also that all three appear the same. Therefore, when the audience reviews the events, the strengths of one support the other.

Karrell Fox once did a cut restored with the pull method in which he tossed the rope into the air and caught it restored. With that, I suggest the following routine. First use the classic method of cut and restored. But toss the rope into the air to accomplish the restore. Cop the small part so the audience doesn’t see it. Then toss the rope to the audience. Then, for some reason, offer to explain it in detail. Then, use the loop method of cut and restored. Repeat the action of restoration. Then, as you may have missed a detail, offer to explain a third time. Then the pull method is used. As you have offered more detail, the two halves can be separated.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Bill Hegbli
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Sealegs, I was browsing John Ramsay, to see what is available, and found that International Magic has John Ramsay DVDs, in it there is a Rope trick by Ramsay. I think it kind of fits what you originally requested.

I like the ending, and it is a surprise. Meets your other conditions as well. What is old is new again.

Take a look:


Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Kaliix
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I think your concern is misplaced. Hayden's Mongolian Pop Knot and Mac King's multiple knot routine both involve knots being pulled off the ropes. Both routines are outstanding, both have been successfully performed for years and I am fairly certain that the audience has no clue as to how they are done. I remember seeing Mac King's routine for the first time in Vegas and I had no idea how it was done when I first saw it.

Quote:
On Feb 13, 2017, Al Schneider wrote:
Well, here’s another thought.
The goal here seems to be seeking a way to do cut and restored stronger without switching to some other effect.

One of my concerns is that pulling the knot off to show a rope restored kind of reveals how the effect was accomplished. I would rather secretly remove the knot as if the knot blended into the rope.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
~George Bernard Shaw
Al Schneider
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Bill Hegbli
Thank you for sharing that video.
In my humble opinion, I think the C and R sequence was very good. When he showed the rope restored I thought it very strong. I think going on was a mistake. I think Sealegs would agree. I see his desire to complete a CR sequence with more wow without resorting to a change of venue. In my humble opinion, I think a third time it is done when the audience has seen it twice considerably enhances the effect for they know what is going to happen, they burn every move, and the magic happens anyway. In my humble opinion, the audience is very, very engaged. In my humble opinion, when magicians attempt to create surprise at every turn, they do themselves a disservice. They actually confuse the audience and the performer then resorts to comedy to get the paycheck. I think I have some kind of a reputation in magic because I apply this principle in many of my routines. I repeat some event that actually sets up an ending that requires no moves and appears as real magic. This is the heart and soul of Matrix.

I also challenge our goal in doing magic. I believe most performances are a warm body standing before an audience and being interesting. Cute comedy shots are the order of the day. There are some of us that desire to clearly to demonstrate magic phenomena. I do not want my audience to politely applaud. I want to fry their brain. When that happens, their is no applause. When I am successful, the audience does not applaud me or even notice I am in the room. They are focused on the MAGIC. Understand that I am aware of the difference between this kind of performance and that of the guys that make a living doing magic. It is interesting to note that most successful pro magicians focus so much energy on comedy and something they call entertainment.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Pop Haydn
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I used to do a routine on the ships. I did the Slydini Scissors Cut and Restored, where two different three foot lengths are shown and one at a time, a rope is shown, convincingly cut in the middle, restored and tossed into the audience. The third time, a third piece of rope is picked up, set for the Bill Neff restoration using a pull.

The audience member cuts the rope, the two pieces are shown separate, and the rope is visibly and magically restored and then also tossed to the audience.
Al Schneider
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I would like to share some thoughts here about Pop.
He has reasons for doing what he does.
I once saw a clip of him doing magic I think at the Magic Castle. What struck me about that event is that someone set up a camera in the middle of the room and was using the mike on the camera. Normally videos like that appear as if the performer was alien to the room and appears detached from it. Pop did not appear that way. The video appeared as done by a sophisticated film crew. Look at the video shown in this thread. As I watch I do not see empty space to the left and right of him. He is not standing on a stage doing a trick. I do not know how to explain it. He is the whole show. He is the stage. He seems to engulf everything including the audience with naught but a soft touch. He is more than the magic he is doing.

I observed this in another setting. Don Alan did a convention I attended. The seats were arranged as bleachers. I sat way at the top. As I watched Don perform, I forgot I had a body. I felt I was two feet in front of the table he performed on. When Don took his final bow and left the room, it appeared as the light dimmed to almost nothing. The next performer came in. He looked like a tiny person walking up to the table. I knew this performer and knew he was competent. Coincidentally, Don had little eye contact with the audience, just a glance now and then.

Analyzing why Pop does what he does would be pointless.

I think most magicians like pulling the knot or popping the knot off the rope because it gets a reaction. The audience sees the knot on the rope and believes it is one piece. When the knot suddenly falls off, it is a shock because something that they believed was suddenly violated. My point of view is that it suggests the knot was not part of the rope and could suggest some nefarious activity. The act provides a thread backwards to a solution for the effect. I agree most don’t care. I just believe that doing something else would advance the magic effect. As most are going for laughs it doesn’t matter. There are a few like me that want more punch. It’s all about what one’s intent is.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Pop Haydn
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I couldn't agree more, Al. I am a big fan of your work as well.

In my opinion, in general the stronger the magic the less presentation it needs.

The need for presentation goes up as the number of miracles goes up. It is not only the spaces between effects--the seques and setups--but the number of effects as well. One killer effect done on it's own needs little presentation. With more, the impact becomes less severe for each one, and theatrical considerations multiply.

Billy McComb thought that it was best to do only one big effect that the audience would remember, and sort of build up to it with charming and baffling magic that gives way to producing a live chicken or vanishing a bird cage.

Houdini did one incredible escape on top of another that led up to something truly death defying and impossible. The earlier effects help to soften the audience up and create an image of Houdini as an all-conquering hero that made the final triumph more believable and acceptable.

There are lots of differences on how to approach this, and I think they are all interesting and thought provoking.

The main difference between someone who is doing magic with comedy, rather than using magic for comedy; or, who is using theater to enhance his magic, rather than using magic as a transitional device or special effect to tell a story is whether we are doing magic for its own sake or using magic to deliver a message, tell a story or persuade the audience of something other than the magic effect itself.

To be Our Magic and be Good Magic, the music, character, humor, story, lights and sound must all serve the magic, and not the other way around.

I am a purist. I believe that the magic is the message.
Al Schneider
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Your comment about the number of killer events dulling the senses is interesting.
And the philosophies of presentation are interesting.
I like to put as much magic events in a presentation as I can.
I believe they came to see magic and I want to satisfy that desire.
But I think the audience can be hit with magic overwhelm.
I came up with an idea to handle that.
The idea is that the show is presented like a roller coaster ride.
Go high then relax. Go high again and relax. Make each successive higher, higher than the one before.
As an example. Do a cut restored, then six bill repeat, then vanishing bird cage.
The end of the show is of course your big bang.
What do you think of this and what other presentation philosophies are you aware of?
And could we hear from the experienced Bill Hegbli on this subject?
I looked up your websites. Man, you got creds.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Bill Hegbli
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I actually have not opinion on such an in depth study, as there are no hard and fast rules to showmanship and personalities. What works for one person, will not work for another simply because their personality.

I have seen a few characters over the years, taken on like Pop Hayden's, but none of them have been anywhere near as good as his portrayal of his performances.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
tecumilic
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This was a great read
rabbitok
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All the input here is fantastic, and made for interesting erudite article, personally I finish on a patter line.. "we , of course, end with one long piece".... and simply re-gather I think the ending of fully restore piece of rope with knot vanished is so strong that it would difficult to follow it with any more astonishment...though I like the idea of "shrinking" the rope, perhaps a t*p*t vanish of the long piece, untie the knot as the Short Piece, explaining that you'll need to keep this piece to replenish stock...
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