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NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, Uli Weigel wrote:
Wanna know, which countries the Jihadists are actually hitting the most? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, India, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Jemen. And we're talking about tens of thousands of victims.


Which is why my position is that the USA's foreign policy should be one of disengagement.

Left alone, the various factions would destroy themselves since they hate each other as much, or more, than they hate the west, imo.
Nothing justifies the atrocities, but you can see how the constant bombing and interference leads to hatred. A whole generation has lived knowing nothing but wars that the US has had a major hand in, either overtly or covertly.
Usually both.

Let's just mind our business, bring back as many troops as possible, close as many bases as possible, spend the money NOT wasted on TRILLION dollar jets, on say...I don't know, renewable energy, infrastructure, education, and RATIONAL social programs.

If anything, just for the new experience.

A major shift towards renewable energy, and away from fossil fuels, would reduce the value of the resources we're really fighting over to the point where we wouldn't give a dammn about them.
Maybe then those who fight over a subjective ideology will be forced to consider the practical consequences of their nonsense.

An empty belly trumps everything, no?

As the old meme goes "The wars on terror and drugs have resulted in more terror and drugs. How about this year we have wars on education and jobs and peace, and see how that goes."
Or something like that.

All of which is ridiculous of course, since we don't REALLY fight wars for principles, or defense anymore.

I don't know if we ever really did, but it would be nice to think so.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, stoneunhinged wrote:
I don't think Tommy was motivated by some kind of agenda.

It surprised me very much when I visited the States that there seemed to be a perception among some (I'm the kind of guy who talks quite a lot to strangers to hear their take on things) that we're living in a war zone here in Germany. Part of the perception is an almost propaganda-like attempt to discredit Chancellor Merkel's policies. Another part of it was a series of attacks last summer that had doubtful connections to terrorism in any traditional sense. Regardless, the perception surprised me, as I honestly feel safer in Germany than I do in the States. I certainly don't walk around fearing terrorists. But I think that certain media might give those abroad the impression that Germany is under attack, and Tommy reflects that impression.

I have never experienced any kind of hysteria or panic or irrational fear here. We're all OK, and are as safe as anyone else in any other country, and my guess is that Uli would agree. My guess is also that most in France (my own vote for the country that seems to bear the brunt of terrorist attacks) would also say they feel safe.


I live in NYC, obviously, and I don't feel any less safe than I've ever felt.

You have to live your life. What else can you do?

Which is why, ultimately, terrorism, as a tactic, is so dammn stupid.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
NYCTwister
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On Dec 21, 2016, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:
Probably because Germany has the strongest economy, and a fairly progressive culture.


That's an interesting take.


Makes sense from a strategic point of view. The weakest countries will fall from just not being prepared. so make the strongest waste resources.

The progressive stuff is just haram.

Assuming of course, that the whole thing is ideologically based; which we don't really know right now.

It could just be another idiot.
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Salguod Nairb
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:


Which is why my position is that the USA's foreign policy should be one of disengagement.

Left alone, the various factions would destroy themselves since they hate each other as much, or more, than they hate the west, imo.
Nothing justifies the atrocities, but you can see how the constant bombing and interference leads to hatred. A whole generation has lived knowing nothing but wars that the US has had a major hand in, either overtly or covertly.
Usually both.

Let's just mind our business, bring back as many troops as possible, close as many bases as possible, spend the money NOT wasted on TRILLION dollar jets, on say...I don't know, renewable energy, infrastructure, education, and RATIONAL social programs.

If anything, just for the new experience.

A major shift towards renewable energy, and away from fossil fuels, would reduce the value of the resources we're really fighting over to the point where we wouldn't give a dammn about them.
Maybe then those who fight over a subjective ideology will be forced to consider the practical consequences of their nonsense.

An empty belly trumps everything, no?

As the old meme goes "The wars on terror and drugs have resulted in more terror and drugs. How about this year we have wars on education and jobs and peace, and see how that goes."
Or something like that.

All of which is ridiculous of course, since we don't REALLY fight wars for principles, or defense anymore.

I don't know if we ever really did, but it would be nice to think so.



Wow. You are fully entitled to your opinion so I will simply say... I disagree.




* The comment above contains no malice, snidest, or angry inflection.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:


Which is why my position is that the USA's foreign policy should be one of disengagement.

Left alone, the various factions would destroy themselves since they hate each other as much, or more, than they hate the west, imo.
Nothing justifies the atrocities, but you can see how the constant bombing and interference leads to hatred. A whole generation has lived knowing nothing but wars that the US has had a major hand in, either overtly or covertly.
Usually both.

Let's just mind our business, bring back as many troops as possible, close as many bases as possible, spend the money NOT wasted on TRILLION dollar jets, on say...I don't know, renewable energy, infrastructure, education, and RATIONAL social programs.

If anything, just for the new experience.

A major shift towards renewable energy, and away from fossil fuels, would reduce the value of the resources we're really fighting over to the point where we wouldn't give a dammn about them.
Maybe then those who fight over a subjective ideology will be forced to consider the practical consequences of their nonsense.

An empty belly trumps everything, no?

As the old meme goes "The wars on terror and drugs have resulted in more terror and drugs. How about this year we have wars on education and jobs and peace, and see how that goes."
Or something like that.

All of which is ridiculous of course, since we don't REALLY fight wars for principles, or defense anymore.

I don't know if we ever really did, but it would be nice to think so.



Wow. You are fully entitled to your opinion so I will simply say... I disagree.




* The comment above contains no malice, snidest, or angry inflection.


Yea I hold a different view as well.
Danny Doyle
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R.S.
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, Uli Weigel wrote:
Wanna know, which countries the Jihadists are actually hitting the most? Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nigeria, India, Syria, Somalia, Sudan, Jemen. And we're talking about tens of thousands of victims.


Which is why my position is that the USA's foreign policy should be one of disengagement.

Left alone, the various factions would destroy themselves since they hate each other as much, or more, than they hate the west, imo.
Nothing justifies the atrocities, but you can see how the constant bombing and interference leads to hatred. A whole generation has lived knowing nothing but wars that the US has had a major hand in, either overtly or covertly.
Usually both.

Let's just mind our business, bring back as many troops as possible, close as many bases as possible, spend the money NOT wasted on TRILLION dollar jets, on say...I don't know, renewable energy, infrastructure, education, and RATIONAL social programs.

If anything, just for the new experience.

A major shift towards renewable energy, and away from fossil fuels, would reduce the value of the resources we're really fighting over to the point where we wouldn't give a dammn about them.
Maybe then those who fight over a subjective ideology will be forced to consider the practical consequences of their nonsense.

An empty belly trumps everything, no?

As the old meme goes "The wars on terror and drugs have resulted in more terror and drugs. How about this year we have wars on education and jobs and peace, and see how that goes."
Or something like that.

All of which is ridiculous of course, since we don't REALLY fight wars for principles, or defense anymore.

I don't know if we ever really did, but it would be nice to think so.


I tend to agree.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:


Which is why my position is that the USA's foreign policy should be one of disengagement....
I don't know if we ever really did, but it would be nice to think so.



Wow. You are fully entitled to your opinion so I will simply say... I disagree.


Why?

Quote:
* The comment above contains no malice, snidest, or angry inflection.


Why would I think it did?
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Salguod Nairb
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On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote: Why?


Short answer: History.

Longer answer: Islamic extremism isn't limmited to the Islamic countries. Maybe back in the day before social media, cable/satellite TV, and the internet, but now they see it as subversive poisoning of their youth and feel justified in say flying aircraft into large buildings. When all you have to look forward to is being an illiterate goat herder (Idiosyncratic example) and someone comes up to you and tells you that God has a plan for you and that you are special; you tend to go with them and receive an education.

Most assassinations are thwarted because the assassin must allow for a escape plan. With extremism (Islamic or otherwise) that is no longer a concern. Before you say it, Yes, we caused a lot of this due to our actions over the last 35 years, but it would be extremely irresponsible for us to walk away now because it is inconvenient. We either need to fix it (hard) or contain it (less hard). In a perfect world of plentifulness and social enlightenment none of this would be necessary, but as a species we are not there yet.

Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote: Why would I think it did?


Wanted to make sure you/anyone wouldn't think that I'm starting a flame war or attacking your ideology. I'm a minor troll at times but I accept differences in opinions in those who are being honest. Smile
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balducci
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, NYCTwister wrote:

Probably because Germany has the strongest economy, and a fairly progressive culture.

I read much the same thing in various newspaper accounts quoting the 'experts' (military people, security people, etc.).

Their claim is that Germany has a tolerant culture with many moderate Muslims. The radicals want to disrupt this, sow discontent, turn the populace of Germany against one another, etc.

On a different point, I read another article talking about why a country like Germany makes an easy target. Basically, (as a result of reforms following WW2), various security forces within Germany do not effectively communicate with one another. Cut and pasted a little below, more at the link:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/a......3387839/

Much of German’s security architecture was designed to prevent what happened during the Third Reich: The logic was to take domestic security out of the hands of the central government. Germany has some of the strictest privacy laws in the world. As a result, agencies are loath to talk to one another: Foreign intelligence (the Bundesnachrichtendienst, or BND) faces severe hurdles communicating with domestic intelligence (the Verfassungsschutz, which loosely translates to protection of the constitution) – and is subject to an extensive parliamentary inquiry into unauthorized “selector” data sharing with the U.S. National Security Agency.

Domestic intelligence does not talk to police, and vice versa. This is the same organization that has been the focus of extensive inquiries because of its years-long inability to dismantle a small right-wing terrorist cell (the Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund, or NSU) that arbitrarily killed nine immigrant small-business owners across Germany, committed a series of bombings, premeditated the killing of a police officer and engaged in multiple robberies. Not only was the combined effort of several agencies unable to track down the perpetrators, but once the cell was dismantled by police, largely by accident, after yet another robbery, the Verfassungsschutz proceeded to destroy documents and erase data to cover its tracks, to the point where its own former director concluded that the Verfassungsschutz had lost 'considerable credibility.'

Like much of Germany's public administration, domestic security and intelligence infrastructure is decentralized: Each of the 16 states runs its own Verfassungsschutz and, until 9/11, Germany did not even have a federal police force (the Bundespolizei). And like all security intelligence agencies, sharing is not one of their virtues. The federal umbrella Verfassungsschutz in Cologne technically has the auspices over counterterrorism, but the fact that one of its employees was recently arrested as an Islamist sympathizer for actively inciting violent extremism on radical websites is hardly reassuring.
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tommy
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In Western Europe, terrorist attacks in the 1970s and 1980s were worse than they are now. It was not unusual to see many killed in terrorist attacks in those decades. 1988 was the most violent year in Western Europe. 270 people died in the attack on the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie. In the 1990s it was still bad but dropped steadily.

The Jihad troubles as we know them today didn’t really get going in Western Europe until 2004. The worst terrorist attack year in Western Europe this 21st century was 2004. In 2004 196 people were killed. In that year 191 people died in the attacks in Madrid. 2005 was also a bit bad. Apart from that, it has not been bad,util the last two years.

2015 was the second worse this 21st century and 2016 so far is the third worse this century in Western Europe. In Western Europe, in total 175 people died by terrorist attacks last year 2015.

Germany it seems had hardly had any Jihad waged on them until the last two years and neither had France. I don’t know but I believe that in the last couple of years both Germany and France have stepped up their attacks on the Jihadist lands. That is why the jihadists are stepping up their attacks on them. Both France and Germany have many people there now from the Jihadist lands which they are attacking and so they are bound to get hit back by them.
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NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, Salguod Nairb wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote: Why?

Islamic extremism isn't limited to the Islamic countries. Maybe back in the day before social media, cable/satellite TV, and the internet, but now they see it as subversive poisoning of their youth and feel justified in say flying aircraft into large buildings. When all you have to look forward to is being an illiterate goat herder (Idiosyncratic example) and someone comes up to you and tells you that God has a plan for you and that you are special; you tend to go with them and receive an education.


Exactly.

They take our innate need to be as special as our obvious individuality demands of us, and pervert it.

Which is precisely why military action can never be the answer.
How do you bomb thoughts out of existence?

You have to attack the veracity of the ideology.

Of course, when you do, you're met with a wall of PC rhetoric, and down the distraction rabbit hole we go.
Again.

Quote:
Yes, we caused a lot of this due to our actions over the last 35 years, but it would be extremely irresponsible for us to walk away now because it is inconvenient.


Why would it be irresponsible to admit we've been mistaken, and stop making the same mistake(s)?

Quote:
We either need to fix it (hard) or contain it (less hard).


Fixing it hard has only resulted in more things that need fixing.
Which is fine, for those that seek guaranteed jobs with lifetime pensions; but what about the rest of us?

Regarding containment - again....how do you contain thoughts?

Since the ideology is fatally flawed, and requires destruction, compromise is always impossible.

Quote:
In a perfect world of plentifulness and social enlightenment none of this would be necessary, but as a species we are not there yet.


So how do we get "there" from "here", if we keep paying an automatic lip service of respect to ANY ideology, just because it's wildly accepted?

Quote:
On Dec 22, 2016, NYCTwister wrote: Why would I think it did?


Quote:
Wanted to make sure you/anyone wouldn't think that I'm starting a flame war or attacking your ideology. I'm a minor troll at times but I accept differences in opinions in those who are being honest. Smile


I just thought it had something to do with your new signature.

Like I've said....I miss the cartoons.
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rockwall
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Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, Uli Weigel wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 21, 2016, tommy wrote:
Why the Jihadists seem to be hitting Germany more than anybody, is something of a mystery to me I must say.


Prove it. Show me the data or reliable sources for your claim. This is news to us uninformed germans.


If only German women were better informed, they would be less worried.

"Half of German Women Feel Unsafe in Their Own Neighbourhoods"

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/......urhoods/

(True, I am relying on Breitbarts reporting of the study as I don't read German and cannot vouch for the accuracy of the report.)
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