Great post Cag.

"If you have to say you is ... you ain't"

It's interesting, how magicians, historians, and demo folks find a certain amount of "panache" in being directly associated with card cheats - receiving their highly secret information.
Unfortunately, by the time any given hustler associated with cheating at cards decides to associate with magicians and demo folks, said "card cheat" is 100% already a magician themselves.

Anybody claiming to be a card cheat on the internet - quite obviously isn't anything of the sort.
Real cheats don't post on message boards, and they don't sell to magicians the very skills required to pay their rent, and put food on their tables.

Reality lesson #101 - there are no hustlers in the Gambling Spot.

Let's take for example, Doc Jon - a REAL hustler if there ever was one.
By the time he was posting here on the Gambling Spot, and on the private Gimmick and Fake forum - what he was really doing was marketing the recent video he'd made with School For Scoundrels, and encouraging magicians and demo artists to purchase it so they could learn about Doc John's history.
In short, he had become a magician marketing a magic DVD to other magicians (I loved the guy BTW, don't get me wrong).

There have only ever been a couple of guys who have ever posted to the Gambling Spot who were actual hustlers, and who weren't trying to sell anything (either a product, or themselves) to magicians. They're LONG gone.

No hustlers or card cheats here today folks, harsh lesson in life if you think there are.

With all respect, I don't think the reasoning stands that selling products or discussing on a forum automatically disqualifies one to be a hustler. especially if he limited the availability of his products and chosen his customers and well hid his identity. And we are not even sure if he ever put his best weapons in these products.
I do think there are real hustlers on this forum.

So what you're saying is that there's someone on this forum hustling his fellow members by selling his/her least effective gambling moves?

Nooo. that's not what I meant. I meant a hustler is still a hustler if he decides to sell some info he knows. that's it.

No worry Simon, I think everybody reading this would know I was joking But because of the unmeant ambiguity of your post, I could not resist.
Peace.

Yes, now I can feel the ambiguity in my own post by reading it again. better pay attention to the wording next time..

@SimonCard:

So does that mean, "If you say you is, you really is??"

What if you say you ain't. Does that mean your really ain't or are you really is?

Oh...this is very confusing.

Indeed, you could be right Simon. Your opinion is equally as valid as mine ... and knowing anything "for certain" in the internet is pretty near impossible

But I sincerely don't believe any hustlers post to the Gambling Spot these days.
I have been here in the Gambling Spot since near the beginning - and can recall when actual hustlers DID post here on a regular basis.
I do know what the posts of a real hustler read like (as can you), and they don't read like anything that's been posted here in the past couple of years.

For an example, you might want to check these chaps out:
topandball
card cheat
memph33777
And (despite what some folks might say) - DOC-(Unknown419), especially when he first started posting on the Café, long before anybody knew who he was. Remember too that DOC posted in The Workers forum long before the Gambling Spot ever came into being.

For the definitions that concern the Gambling Spot, we have:

Cambridge Dictionary: Hustler - Someone who tries to deceive people into giving them money.

Oxford Dictionary: Hustler - A person adept at aggressive selling or illicit dealing.

If we except illicit dealing (pun intended) I'm not sure we have hustlers here, that's right.

There are others sources yet:

Merriam Webster: - To lure less skillful players into competing against oneself at (a gambling game)

Still not good. Now, as an intransitive verb, we can find this:

Merriam Webster: - To obtain money by fraud or deception

Well, when I steal the money in a pot because I stacked three kings, I think I match the definition. But I prefer card cheat, avocational if you want. I'm already an avocational Egyptologist, it's just one more amateur title. I don't mind.

Hustler

1825, "thief" (especially one who roughs up his victims), from hustle (v.) + -er (1). Sense of "one who is energetic in work or business" (especially, but not originally, a salesman) is from 1884; sense of "prostitute" dates from 1924.

Hustle

1680s (trans.), "to shake to and fro" (especially of money in a cap, as part of a game called hustle-cap), metathesized from Dutch hutselen, husseln "to shake, to toss," frequentative of hutsen, variant of hotsen "to shake." "The stems hot-, hut- appear in a number of formations in both High and Low German dialects, all implying a shaking movement" [OED]. Related: Hustled; hustling. Meaning "push roughly, shove" first recorded 1751. Intransitive sense "bustle, work busily, move quickly" is from 1821.

The key-note and countersign of life in these cities [of the U.S. West] is the word "hustle." We have caught it in the East. but we use it humorously, just as we once used the Southern word "skedaddle," but out West the word hustle is not only a serious term, it is the most serious in the language. [Julian Ralph, "Our Great West," N.Y., 1893]

Sense of "to get in a quick, illegal manner" is 1840 in American English; that of "to sell goods aggressively" is 1887.

@Cagliostro:

of course no, you is what you is no matter what else you say you is....

So do you prefer to be referred to as AMcD Amateur Card Cheat, AMcD Avocational Card Cheat or just simply AMcD the Card Cheat?

Also, do you plan to advertise yourself as a Card Cheat on your Facebook page, complete with your picture like DOC did, to get more exposure and more card cheating business? Your motto could be, "Have cards, will travel."

Business cards and a full color brochure showing pictures of the various moves you use if hired to cheat a card game and mass marketing throughout the European Union would probably get you more business then you could possibly handle.

The possibilities are endless...

This is sort of like "coming out of the closet" but in the gambling venue. Best of all, you may eventually receive full professional card cheat designation and at that point, the entire world would be your oyster...

We live in very exciting times.

@Artie Fufkin

Thanks for the reference, I will read their posts for sure.
To be honest, for me as a hobbyist who doesn't have much gambling experience, it's hard to tell if one is a real hustler just by reading his posts. It's way easier to tell if his technique is good or lame by watching a video demo. I watched Doc' videos which look excellent, and read his posts which at least sounds convincing to me.
I will probably never cheat at a card table. There are no legal casinos in China except in macau, all other games are run by gangsters. If you ever get caught, the results will be guaranteed to be physical injuries.

Are you referring to someone specifically on this forum, or are your statements more general in nature?

Of course the observation as to whether or not "real" hustlers post on this forum or demonstrate their moves is speculation based upon hopefully valid analysis, reasoning and conclusions by the person positing said assertions.

Certainly it can be argued that active hustlers love to expose what they do and demonstrate the moves they use under fire on a public forum such as this, enjoy going to magic conventions for additional notoriety and exposure, like to becomes well known to other magicians and demonstrators, thrive on wide recognition, gain a reputation as being very skillful and hope no one recognizes them or their moves/methods if they use them under fire or recognize the physical characteristics that would identify them, like tattoos or other identifiers that some demonstrators use.

We can only go by the weight of reason and good old fashioned common sense which admittedly may be different from person to person. The conclusion as to whether hustlers post or don't post on this forum is not absolute as the determination of such is not quantifiable and impossible to substantiate with absolute certainty since we must deal with anecdotal utterances at this level of discussion. We can only look at what is most likely based upon the content of the discussion, the information conveyed and whether it is dated, standard, overexposed demo information or something new, relatively unknown and currently in use.

However, I think we can clear all this up rather quickly by simply saying henceforth, "If you say you is, you definitely IS."

No further substantiation is necessary since persons who profess to be card cheats on a public forum would never lie about that. The new paradigm is, "There IS honor among thieves, demonstrators and politicians."

That settles that! Next case!

@SimonCard: Just having some fun. Your post is valid and sincere and I was just joking because I have too much free time on my hands. Maybe I should go back to my old job of flipping hamburgers at McDonald's and do something more productive with my time.

No, no, no! Something more classy. On Facebook I'm advertising myself as the first Avocational Egyptologist Card Cheat. That's quite something eh? Take a look:

https://www.facebook.com/arnold.mcdonald.58

There's even a picture... of me!!!

I plan to tour the whole world, Europe is too small. I'm even currently studying the possibilities to visit a few galaxies. My motto will be "bring your wife and your cash, I'll take care of both". (there's an age limit for the wives though. ET women must have less than 3 antennas as well).

I don't have tattoos, but my rings are famous all around the earth. When I enter a game, everyone get thrilled "oh my god, it's the guy demonstrating card cheating moves on Internet!". Well, that's for the guys. Women (usually scantily clad) simply collapse when they see me.

I don't have to say I is, everyone know me.

@AMcD

never seen your BD till today on facebook. That's probably the best strike bottom from mechanic's grip I've seen.

Thanks Simon!

That said, that's normal, because I am the best. Hmm, I was just thinking... Eventually, I may get a few tattoos to look like much more credible.

Yes...YES...it now all comes together for me. The ancient hieroglyphs foretold that one day a consummate card table artist would arrive and change the world of card cheating forever. Now I see that day has arrived.


You don't need tattoos. That is for pretenders like Dan Madison. Not only is your consummate artistry dazzling and beyond reproach, but also SEXY --- at least for scantily clad woman.