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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Science ... Wrong again! Water Wrinkles ..... (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonathan Townsend
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Science is about testing models against the world as it is. About tentatively trading utility for accuracy, not imposing unnecessary features for vanity.
Is ignorance a faith? Does one evangelize for ignorance by casting doubt upon what little we know, offering the safety of a spotless mind as relief from a lifetime facing new questions as reward for successful efforts?

How different the world would be were lightbulbs to grow on bushes in the backyard.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
TomBoleware
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Ron,

Yes the scientific method is the best method we have for testing things, but it does have limitations.
Actually, there are many things that science cannot prove. Don’t you agree?

Jonathan, What's wrong with growing your own lightbulbs. LOL I give more credit to the smart people of the past,
and to the smarter ones we have today. A great tool science is, but in the wrong hands it is a useless tool.

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
Slim King
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Quote:
On Dec 30, 2016, TomBoleware wrote:
Slim, it sounds like a good routine. Would like to see it if you ever get it on video.

I have to agree that science has been wrong many times. Scientists are human and a
long way from being a God. Science is often made up of what I call half-truths. One half
is true but the other half may change at anytime. The newest iphone we have is always
the best--- until it is updated.Smile

Also, sometimes scientists will have an agenda beyond simply furthering the spread of
knowledge of how the world works. Experiments don't lie, but experimenters sometimes do.
It is a lot like with religion where you can’t trust all humans with the words they use.

And then you have those that like to just speak FOR the Scientists.


Back to the cause of wrinkles. Some of mine come from old age.Smile

Tom

I will perform it at the East Coast Spirit Sessions in two weeks. Perhaps I can have someone video record the event.

I like to use the proper definition of Science whenever possible Smile

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/science
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
Dannydoyle
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Does the fact that science can not prove something mean it is not provable?

Of course not which is what is great about the method.

And Tom being accurate should be very important when discussing science.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jan 2, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Ron,

Yes the scientific method is the best method we have for testing things, but it does have limitations.
Actually, there are many things that science cannot prove. Don’t you agree?


Tom, science does not "prove" things beyond a shadow of a doubt. Science simply provides the best possible explanation (among all the alternative explanations) for observed phenomena. The strength of science is that it is open to revision if new or better information is made available.

But of the "many things that science can't prove", do you know of a better way than science to objectively "prove" (explain) them?


Quote:
A great tool science is, but in the wrong hands it is a useless tool.


Can't you say that about pretty much anything?


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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The same can be said of a computer, or even a brain.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
0pus
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tommy
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Thank you. We like his books but we never heard of that one before.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
The same can be said of a computer, or even a brain.

Or a hammer.

(But, admittedly, perhaps not a sonic screwdriver.)
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2017, S2000magician wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 3, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
The same can be said of a computer, or even a brain.

Or a hammer.

(But, admittedly, perhaps not a sonic screwdriver.)


In the right hands a sonic screwdriver can be useless.

Now sonic sunglasses are another matter entirely.

My question is why do people think it is smart to start talking like Yoda? That usually when you can trek they have no point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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? What or who decides whose hands are the right hands?
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Jonathan Townsend
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@dd, break the grammar to look at the pile of unstated presuppositions. RPN to English; object, subject, verb.

It's a lame/impractical hack that worked for a Muppet in a movie. Smile

Look for "how would anyone else know if not" contextual reference to support propositions.

Nice white lab coat, Armani, Prada...maybe a ralph Lauren...brand affiliation Smile
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TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2017, R.S. wrote:

Tom, science does not "prove" things beyond a shadow of a doubt. Science simply provides the best possible explanation (among all the alternative explanations) for observed phenomena. The strength of science is that it is open to revision if new or better information is made available.



“A great tool science is, but in the wrong hands it is a useless tool”

Can't you say that about pretty much anything?


Ron


Ron, Science is a lot about ‘trust’ isn’t it? We trust that we have the best until something else comes along that may change the ‘facts.’ Sounds a lot like religion, doesn’t it? Takes a lot of ‘trust’ with both.


Yes, of course you could say the same about any tool, “A great tool science is, but in the wrong hands it is a useless tool”

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
Dannydoyle
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A tool is a tool. Too often it is a tool using a tool.

Science verifies. Religion never bothers. They sound NOTHING alike! Scientists shows how they came to conclusions. They test and can re test. This is what makes science valuable. Religion never tests concepts, they are articles of FAITH.

You actually show how little you know of science with that comparison. I am religious and I know the difference.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:

Science verifies. Religion never bothers. They sound NOTHING alike! Scientists shows how they came to conclusions. They test and can re test. This is what makes science valuable. Religion never tests concepts, they are articles of FAITH.

You actually show how little you know of science with that comparison. I am religious and I know the difference.


Out of sincere curiosity - Why are you religious if you know the difference?

No disrespect to anyone but I've never understood, (even as a very small child), how anyone can have faith in something that not only can never be proven, but says that it doesn't need to?

Not looking to start anything, just curious.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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Yes, the working model in science is built upon a trust that the most clever and careful have yet to find something the model predicts but that reality demonstrates otherwise. Hence the amusements about flying bees and bending light. Old ground covered early last century.

The most elegant useful model. Got one?

So much vanity drops away when "someone else" gets involved in testing theory.
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Jonathan Townsend
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@nyc...you're treading on the notion Frank Herbert called essential vanity. It's not so much a mountain range as a scab over a deep wound with raw nerves. careful.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
TomBoleware
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Danny, I know the difference. My point is they both require trust and faith.

Religious people are often tested; it’s just not something you do in a lab.Smile

We have ’faith’ in the scientists and ‘trust’ that they get it right.
(Rarely do we question them, we accept it because it is science)

We have ‘faith’ in God and ‘trust’ that we have it right.
(Rarely do we question Him, we accept it because He is God)

Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/

When you come to the point where you have no need to impress anybody, your freedom will begin.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jan 3, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
We have ’faith’ in the scientists and ‘trust’ that they get it right.
(Rarely do we question them, we accept it because it is science)
Tom


Speak for yourself.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Jonathan Townsend
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@Tom, that testing can be done in the lab. See Milgram about compliance and what comes after. It's just not "nice" to directly test such socialy condoned beliefs...

Eyes over the chip dip. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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