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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » The Undetectible Zarrow Shuffle (20 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tommy
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Magicians are actors, they playing a part; they create a backstory for their fictional creators. The magicians that do card magic with gambling thyme often will invent a backstory to fit the bill. They will talk about how they hung out with gamblers etcetera but it only fiction. It is only for the public who they are there amuse. They are all professional utter liars and don’t ever believe anything they ever say, especially Pop Haydn.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pop Haydn
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That is a terrible thing to say!

I've never told but one lie in my entire life, tommy...

and I only tell that one when I'm pressed and don't have time to think.
tommy
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Smile

One day there will be a portrait of Pop hanging in the Louvre next to the Mona Lisa called “The Sincerity of the Magician”.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
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One day Pop Haydn will get the credit he deserves for the incredible amount of work he and SFS did documenting the Top and Ball, Chain, and Three Card Monte.

There are lots of folks that are pretenders to the crown hanging around these days, but School For Scoundrels and Pop (as Whit) did the original work (along with Anton) in documenting these three classic short cons in a scholarly fashion.

I have all the written work, and DVD's that SFS released on the three short cons noted above, and refer to them often.

And if that wasn't enough, it was Pop and SFS that sat down with Doc Jon and got on video the real stories, and the actual methods used by "legitimate" hustlers to separate the rube from his money.
The Doc Jon DVD is absolutely priceless.

Anyway, thanks for all you've contributed to the knowledge bank Pop, it's a massive amount of quality information that will undoubtedly more than stand the test of time.
AMcD
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I will never thank Pop enough for setting up a live chat with Doc Jon, a few years ago. I had to stay awake for the whole night, but it was great!

Thanks Pop!
dapo24
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While I agree it is visually inferior to the push-through I think it still has an application. And that's in the RRSRC. You can do the cut one handed. But I don't think it could withstand a lot of scrutiny - unless done very well. Maybe just preserving the bottom ~15 cards with the concept of the Zarrow? Jason England does it pretty well and I'm currently trying to play around with it. Trying to make RRSRC sequence with the zarrow as the last shuffle (first two push-through with Richard Turner's "crocodile shuffle") and making the actions somewhat uniform. I'll see what can I come up with :V
cbharrelson
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My zarrow after a lot of practice is natural and covered. Principals learned from Gary plants watching excellent crud men performing listening to sound advice like from cag about the principals taught about false shuffling i.e. Top stock. I only use a zarrow shuffle I never shuffle on the square. I am never fooled by a push thru no matter how skillfull. I have used a zarrow in real time games.best performers I have seen is 1 Gary plants 2 Steve forte 3 Charlie Miller all the rest follow herb zarrow said lead. I have not seen all zarrow so but I do know mine and I have compared to other card men and I do use mirrors and professional critics to check the mechanics.
AMcD
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Geez! Can you show us please? By the way, don't forget the aim of this place: G-A-M-B-L-I-N-G. What I mean by that is that most of the "good" Z I have seen could not fit. Far from it. They were so slow, for instance, that we could play almost a round of Poker before the guy has finished a single Z (I'm hardly exaggerating). And don't forget to use a good angle of vision; at the table, people are at a certain distance from the shuffler and you generally have one player on your right and one on your left (not mentioning people standing up behind you, watching the game).

Don't worry, critics will be fair and honest.
tommy
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“Gambling” covers an awful lot of different players, games and circumstances.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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Yes. But an undetectable Zarrow covers an awful lot of bullcrap as well.
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Mar 16, 2017, cbharrelson wrote:

...I only use a zarrow shuffle I never shuffle on the square. I am never fooled by a push thru no matter how skillfull. I have used a zarrow in real time games...


As I have written before, I prefer a good breakout to a Zarrow. However, I have developed a pretty deceptive Zarrow using a close approximation of the grip explained by Erdnase to control the top stock with the riffle shuffle and squaring the cards ups with the heels of my hands while keeping the finger cover at the same time. Not a great shuffle but better and more deceptive than 99% of the Zarrows I have seen.

The only suspicious elements to me with my approach (which is common to all Zarrows) would be the "setup" prior to the Zarrow and the slight movement of the top cards of both halves prior to breaking out and squaring the deck. Also, the amount of cover necessary to conceal the breakout leaves a little to be desired compared to "fair" shuffles or even compared to pull through and strip out shuffles.

Gary Plant's method is pretty good and much better than most of the Zarrows I have seen. His grip and cover uses an old breakout shuffle technique that has been used going back 50 years or more at the gaming tables. I personally thought the breakout shuffle, which was also described by Plants and called the "Oiensk" shuffle or something like that to be a better shuffle, at least in comparison. Plant's method leaks form certain angles but is fairly good looking straight on.

If one were to use a Zarrow under fire, I would think that partial Zarrows would be much better and then only as part of a shuffling sequence, say to setup a brief or to complete a riffle stack. But still, not great. Same with strip out shuffles, partials are much better as it's rarely necessary to control the entire deck. Full deck control is more in the province of magicians and demonstrators "doing their thing."

We have all heard or read statements that someone has seen an undetectable Zarrow shuffle or can actually do one. While I don't doubt the sincerity of those making such statements, it is anecdotal and has never been verified to my satisfaction. Also, what is deceptive and undetectable to one observer may be obvious to another. In other words, it may be deceptive to someone with little or no knowledge of card table manipulation but readily apparent to someone who is more adept and aware of such type chicanery.

@cbharrelson: Evidently you have put in a lot of time mastering your technique of the Zarrow. So...if possible, I would like to see a video of your Zarrow. If you can't post one, that's okay also.

Further, you say you use the Zarrow in real-time games. What type games, what are the stakes and how astute are the players? Moreover, do you just casually use the shuffle in a game with no objective of getting the money and mostly for you own amusement or do you use it as a sequential part of a real ploy?

Keep in mind, this is not meant to criticize in any way. I am really just curious. If you have a very good Zarrow, I would enjoy seeing it.
AMcD
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Talking is so cheap. Just allow the guy to demonstrate.
tommy
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There are various degrees of heat and therefore then the phrase “under fire” is essentially meaningless without context. There is less heat in lesser company and so on.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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Yeah, yeah.

Me, I just wanna watch that terrific Z.
tommy
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How do you know that you haven't been had by a Z?

Possibilities of the "blind"

IT IS surprising to find among card players, and many of them grown gray at the game, the almost universal belief that none but the unsophisticated can be deceived by "blind" shuffling. These gentlemen have to "be shown," but that is the last thing likely to happen. SWE
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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So, where is this amazing-terrific-undetectable-approved-by-professionals Z?
tommy
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Down a dark alley that nobody knows there stands Z-man picking his nose.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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Yeah, nothing new. As usual in the Gambling Spot, a lot of talking. But when showdown time is there, we don't see that much.
tommy
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As hard as it is for you to believe, the showdown time is not the time of putting a video up at the Magic Café.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
AMcD
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Me, I'm just a bit tired of all those guys who are skilled, who are the gods of the green cloth, who have never been caught, blablabla. All those wonderful guys who can do this and that, who have done this and that. Like undetectable Zarrow shuffles. Yes, all those tremendous people who talk a lot, but who have never demonstrated anything.

I don't give a *** about all those theories, I want facts. It's like a decade or more now that I read this place and I have understood that pros never show, that this place is just for amateurs, that we are wannabes, that we know nothing blablabla and f* endless blablabla which goes on and on for years! I am fed up with all this. Personally, I was simply an amateur card player and it went well for me. All I say or show is true and comes from my own experience. I have never claimed to be someone I wasn't and I don't brag about things I don't know or I can't do. I like Gambling with cards, its history, the techniques. And I like talking and exchanging about it.

You have a nice Z? Show me. You know a technique used in actual places? Show me. If you can't, just don't talk about it. I'm not 25 years old anymore, empty, meaningless and void speeches just bore me.

I leave you there with your metaphors, my friend.
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