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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Johnson's Sun and Moon coin quality ? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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warren
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Does anyone own a Johnson's Sun and Moon coin and if so what is the quality like ie is it deceptive up close ?
Bill Hegbli
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You have to ask? Johnson has been the leader in gimmicked coins for over 50 years, constantly updating their tooling to bring the best gimmicked coins to the World.

You should consider getting their Hopping Half, as it comes with a Sun and Moon coin in the set. More 'bang' for your buck, or British Pound Note in your country.

http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop......ts_id=29

http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop......ts_id=32
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Poof-Daddy
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The Sun/Moon coin from the HH set is an English penny when assembled. That is something to consider too. I believe the Johnson coin is a Kennedy Half Dollar when assembled.
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karnak
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Quote:
On Feb 8, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
The Sun/Moon coin from the HH set is an English penny when assembled. That is something to consider too. I believe the Johnson coin is a Kennedy Half Dollar when assembled.


From the description of the Sun and Moon coin on Johnson's website, it actually sounds like it is also an English penny when assembled, just like the one included in their Hopping Half set:

"The Sun & Moon coin consists of a copper/silver insert showing a half dollar on one side and an English Penny on the other, with an English Penny shell that fits loosely over the insert."

See http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop......ts_id=29
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Poof-Daddy
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Looks like it is an English penny. A friend of mine has a S/M that is a Kennedy half and he said it was a Johnson so I "assumed" (and we all know where that leads) Smile I have one that is a Walking Liberty half when assembled but it is not a Johnson.
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warren
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I'm wanting it for Rob Thompson's Samoya routine and I'm sure I read somewhere that the particular gaff used in hopping halves isn't good enough for the job that's why I'm asking regards the quality etc.
karnak
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I think that may not be because it isn't "good enough" (Johnson quality is quite good, across the board), but because the Samoya routine specifically calls for a different type (configuration) of Sun/Moon gaff set than it typically comes in, in most standard, commonly available, off-the-shelf Sun/Moon sets (from Johnson and elsewhere -- and regardless of whether it comes as part of a HH set, or not).

This may shed a little more light on the nature of the difference: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=202

This might also be more illustrative of the difference, if you follow the link within this link: http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic......orum=202
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
warren
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So basically to get a Sun and Moon coin for the Samoya routine you have to purchase the coin set via Todd Lassen ( who ideally would be my preference ) who is virtually impossible to contact from the Uk or one of the other top coin makers.
karnak
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Or just go with the Johnson Sun & Moon set, IF you can also find some way of additionally obtaining (or making) a Kennedy half dollar that is shaved/cut down, so as to fit the unexpanded English penny shell that comes with the set. (It was suggested in one of those threads that an hour spent with a nail file could produce the desired result.)

The Kennedy half would just need to be filed down until its diameter matches that of the Sun/Moon (copper/silver) insert coin that also comes with the Johnson set (and which fits that unexpanded English penny shell).
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
warren
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I think it would look a mess if I butchered the coin however asking the people over at Johnson magic if they could supply a kennedy half to fit would probably be an option as they are quite helpful Smile

Thanks for everyones comments and help it's most appreciated.
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I purchased a Morgan Dollar Hopping Half set from Mark Mason and had another Morgan made to spec for an additional cost. However, I prefer Roger Klaus's "Soleil et Lune" over "Samoya". They both require the same set.
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warren
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I purchased a Morgan Dollar Hopping Half set from Mark Mason and had another Morgan made to spec for an additional cost. However, I prefer Roger Klaus's "Soleil et Lune" over "Samoya". They both require the same set.


I've never seen Roger's routine any chance of a description ?
karnak
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My understanding (from reading older Café threads) is that "Soleil et Lune" and "Samoya" each require a copper shell that fits over both its copper/silver insert as well as the silver regular coin.

Typically, this takes the form of a standard Sun & Moon gaff (unexpanded copper shell, small and thin c/s insert) along with a "shaved" silver coin reduced in diameter so as to also fit that unexpanded shell).

So is there any reason why one couldn't instead just use an expanded copper shell, a normal "standalone" copper/silver coin (as opposed to a thin & shaved insert), and a normal (unshaved) silver coin?

Granted, the fit and finish (and the coverage of the shelled coins) might not be anywhere near as nice. But in a pinch, could it work?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
warren
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Karnak I've decided to bombard Todd Lassen with emails for a half dollar version in the hope that he picks one up so fingers crossed.
karnak
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Keep us posted. Did Johnson say no to your inquiry re: a cut-down (reduced diameter) half dollar to fit their Sun & Moon unexpanded English penny shell?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
warren
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I didn't ask johnsons magic in the end as I would think that for it to be deceptive up close I would be better off asking one of the best coin gaff maker's as I'm virtually guaranteed a good job.

If I had gotten some replies from other people who actually owned a Johnsons sun and moon coin though I may have done but that wasn't the case.
Poof-Daddy
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Quote:
On Feb 9, 2017, karnak wrote:
The Kennedy half would just need to be filed down until its diameter matches that of the Sun/Moon (copper/silver) insert coin that also comes with the Johnson set (and which fits that unexpanded English penny shell).


A year or two ago, I did just that with a pretty junkie to begin with Walking Liberty Half. I took the bulk of the diameter down (very lightly, slowly and carefully) with a sandpaper tube/tip on an inexpensive dremel tool and finished it with an emery file to fit in the inner shell of my Johnson Hopping Half - English Penny part. Although it did not look to me to be anywhere near a "perfect or near perfect" job. It worked flawlessly when performed for specs. They are not nearly as OCD about coins and gaffs as we are Smile .

I think the key is - FIRST OF ALL - know exactly what you want down to the last spec. Then seek out the gaffers and get some quotes. You may be pleasantly surprised how little they do cost when you mix and match within a set than getting just the one custom set you want. I am also sure, if you catch them when they are not swamped, that many of the big name gaffers may be willing to work with you on stuff like this. It is up to you to be proactive.

I took this a step further last year when I decided on getting the Morgan size Hopping Half set from Mark Mason. Before I even placed the order I asked Mark if he was willing to take an extra Morgan and shave it down and re-mill it to the exact size of the inner C/S insert of the Copper Walker that comes with his HH set.

I also wanted to know if he would sell me a few extra dollar size copper coins to match and do other effects with. After getting every single spec in order he came up with a price that I was more than willing to pay. (Much better that I expected) Then I also decided that since I am using more Morgans for magic along with these extra dollar size copper coins. I wanted a "proper" C/S coin. I wanted the copper shaved down to the exact diameter of a milled Morgan (regular, not shaved and remilled) and I wanted the exact thickness of a morgan wit 2/3 being silver and 1/3 copper. I also wanted it to be Tails on the morgan side and heads on the copper (this allows me to use two shells I own to also make this a S/M coin in silver or copper depending on the shell. Think about how far ahead you can be with a S/M in each hand Smile . Boom, another reasonable price and I am gaffed up nicely now in the Morgans.


If anyone is interested in seeing my "unique" set for Samoya / Soleil et Lune as well as the HH set. Shoot me a PM with your email and I will send some pix. I can do it that way quicker than trying to figure out again how to actually get a photo to post in a thread Smile .

Happy hunting.
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Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






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warren
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Just to update my post, I was finally able to place and order with the main man Mr Todd Lassen and now I'm just waiting for my order so hopefully within the next few months I'll be able to get my hands on some of this master craftsman's work ( to say I'm happy is an understatement ) Smile
Joshua Barrett
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Sounds like you guys are looking for a reverse sun and moon. Geoff Latta has a good routine with one.
warren
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Another update I'm glad happy to say the Sun & Moon set that I ordered from Todd Lassen arrived and it is fantastic, it's been said here on the Café many times that Todd's workmanship is first class and I have to agree it's about as perfect as you can get..needless to say I'm a very satisfied customer Smile
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