The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » The Fair Question Vlog (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Episode 009 is up. This week, I talk patience and relationships.

Fair Question |Episode 009 - Patience & Relationships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twmpMoHaWbQ

Always appreciate you giving me your time and attention. Thank you to all. And if you get a chance, please subscribe to the channel.

-Robert
Robb
View Profile
Inner circle
1290 Posts

Profile of Robb
Hey Robert, what do you think about performing mentalism - with a slant towards more visual "mental magic" - at a fair? I've looked into this market before but other more experienced mentalists discouraged me. They felt a fair was not the right environment for mentalism. I could see why that would be true but just asking your opinion. I


I do think the material would have to be a bit bigger than typical mentalism, but I could also see how it would be a lot of fun for families and friends watching their loved ones having their minds read or partaking in "lie detector" type routine,,,
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Robb,

Great question. I'll include it in a future Fair Question episode for sure but want to get you an answer now.

The others who advised you of the difficulty I feel are apot on.

The fair industry, by nature, is a fight for attention. It's difficult even for the strongest acts to hold an auidences attention.
If you consider the mentalism requires a degree of focus and attention from the audience, fairs could easily be overwhelmig for a mentalist.

I'm not even sure the "mental magic" works all that well. Seriously. I've been at fairs where audience don't understand something as simple as the invisible deck. But they lose their minds over the pom pom pole.

Not saying mentaism can't be done. Maybe you can be the guy that breaks in and makes it a thing for fairs?

But know the market and know what you're up against.

Robert
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20023 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
There are large numbers of hypnotists on the fair circuit. That requires attention. What differentiates that from mentalism?

Keep in mind I an absolutely not saying I disagree, just curious what makes that difference?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Fanatstic follow up, Danny.

Here's how I see it. A hypnostist needs real focus and attention from the 15-20 people on stage. But the audience in a hyp show doesn't require anymore focus and attention than any other type of show. They see people do something funny. They laugh.

Mentalism takes a good deal of focus just to follow along. At least, that is, mentalism as it is typically presented.

Is there a way to make it work for fair audiences? Maybe. But knowing fair audiences the way I do, it'd be a challenge.

The good news? The person that does it absolutely corners the entire market because they'd be the only ones successfully doing it.

Robert
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20023 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Yea that is what I was getting at.

What I am sort of implying is that done in a non traditional manner I bet mentalism could be quite effective.

I have seen some do it very successfully in fairs.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Yeah I think it's possible. But if the mentalist is going to get up and show off and present it like some super power and make it about them, they'll lose.

I would only do a show like that if the entirety of it was about the guests.

Goes for any act though.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9761 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Mentalism rarely plays well in the fair market traditionally. Having worked the fair market for decades and my agencies booking fairs and festivals, mentalism not only is not best-suited for fair audiences (at least in its traditional sense), it is also not accepted by fair boards, programming and bookers. Are there some that attempt it, sure.

As one fair booker told me about 15 years ago, there is not single excitable, describable feature about a mentalist show. When you talk about magic, hypnosis and of course bands - single words and actions like incredible, amazing, exciting exist, but do not come into play with mentalism. The best most fairs will go for is a possible tent performance (crap shoot) but most will not even consider it for a main stage or secondary headlining stage.

It it's a mental magic show, you are now competing with all the other magicians and big box magic shows, and you won't win there. Mosts presentation of mentalism is not as "riveting" to draw, keep and transpose a fair audience. So unless you can find a lesser, non-prime venue in a fair, or perhaps a part of something larger, you may have a hard time with this market.

Although, keep in mind there are other ways into a fair other than through the fair board, but it is still a risk.

Every time we exhibited at IAFE or IFEA and the many other related conferences and conventions, we would always be approached my mentalists for representation in the fair market, and it is just not something widely or willingly accepted in this marketplace. Many mentalists fail to understand this and have gone on to spent thousands of dollars on their own only to discover this the hard way.

Remember, your (the artist's) thoughts and perceptions is not of interest to a fair officials, it is only theirs, based usually on years of experience and the good ol' boys mentalities that exist that they will use to make there determinations. Your first performance (selling) is to them or convince them otherwise.
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Hey Robb,

I hit your question up in this week's Fair Question. I know I addressed it here but maybe the vlog will add more depth to my answer.

Enjoy and thanks for your question.

Fair Question Episode 010 |Fairs and Mentalism
https://www.facebook.com/robertsmithpres......3978523/

-Robert
Robb
View Profile
Inner circle
1290 Posts

Profile of Robb
Thanks so much Robert.... great info, very helpful.
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
On this week's episod, I have a phone conversation with a potential IAFE associate member.

DannyDoyle, Mindpro, Robb, ThomasR etc. You guys won't want to miss a minute of this very revealing episode.

The Fair Question Episode 11 |A Discussion with a Potential IAFE Member
https://youtu.be/mOPnj31TkOY

Robert
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2687 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
Well Done Robert. I love watching you help others
the way you do and teaching that it is all about
building relationships and not all about 'me'

Enjoyed it

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
charliecheckers
View Profile
Inner circle
1960 Posts

Profile of charliecheckers
I too watched this episode and found it interesting. While you were discussing the way you maximize your time attending conventions, it was really good insight to share in the way you spend your time attending lectures rather than to simply work your booth.

I did wonder two things though- why you believed DannyDoyle, Mindpro, Robb, and ThomasR would necessarily find the episode so intriguing as I didn't see the connection.

Also, the question about pricing was not shared in a very meaningful way to the viewer. I can certainly understand not wanting to share your specific pricing and of coarse pricing practices in general are not necessarily something most of us are comfortable discussing in such a forum, but the basic question of how to handle a bundle show discount would have added a bit more to the episode, since the topic was introduced by the guest.
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Quote:
On Apr 17, 2017, charliecheckers wrote:
I too watched this episode and found it interesting. While you were discussing the way you maximize your time attending conventions, it was really good insight to share in the way you spend your time attending lectures rather than to simply work your booth.

I did wonder two things though- why you believed DannyDoyle, Mindpro, Robb, and ThomasR would necessarily find the episode so intriguing as I didn't see the connection.

Also, the question about pricing was not shared in a very meaningful way to the viewer. I can certainly understand not wanting to share your specific pricing and of coarse pricing practices in general are not necessarily something most of us are comfortable discussing in such a forum, but the basic question of how to handle a bundle show discount would have added a bit more to the episode, since the topic was introduced by the guest.



Hey Charlie,

Thanks for your feedback. Since they had all commented on this thread I wanted to be sure they watched all of it as it had real information in it.

The question was not about bundle show discounts. Maybe that's why you didn't see value in it?
However, I appreciate the thought and want to bring you value. You're welcome to come on the show and discuss your opinions on show packaging.

Heck any of you are welcome to come on the show and have a discussion about the fair market or running your business.

Let me know.

Robert
cafecheckers
View Profile
Regular user
126 Posts

Profile of cafecheckers
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
The question was not about bundle show discounts. Maybe that's why you didn't see value in it?

Perhaps I used the wrong term. The guest asked what percentage you discount your show when approaching a fair because you are offered multiple shows per day, for multiple days. He gave the example of a show that might cost $500 and asked what percentage to consider discounting to make it a fair offering to an organization. To my knowledge, you never answered that question. Perhaps you do not approach the bid in such a way, but that was not clear to me.

Quote:
However, I appreciate the thought and want to bring you value. You're welcome to come on the show and discuss your opinions on show packaging.


To date, we have only booked a few County Fairs and they have been smaller in nature 2-3 days- so my opinion Is not of much value. My recollection is that we charged full price for the first show, 2/3 for the second one and 1/2 for the third show. We never did more than three/day.

We also offer reduced pricing to libraries that bulk book shows- generally 20% to 30% off, depending on the particular situation (number of shows booked, number per day, distance -if any -between shows). Much of this was handled through my brother and was derived through input from others as well as desire to get booked solid, so I not only am not recommending it to anyone, I am seeking and receiving better advice via a business coach on how to approach pricing in general and more complicated booking situations as well.
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2017, Cafécheckers wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
The question was not about bundle show discounts. Maybe that's why you didn't see value in it?

Perhaps I used the wrong term. The guest asked what percentage you discount your show when approaching a fair because you are offered multiple shows per day, for multiple days. He gave the example of a show that might cost $500 and asked what percentage to consider discounting to make it a fair offering to an organization. To my knowledge, you never answered that question. Perhaps you do not approach the bid in such a way, but that was not clear to me.

Quote:
However, I appreciate the thought and want to bring you value. You're welcome to come on the show and discuss your opinions on show packaging.


To date, we have only booked a few County Fairs and they have been smaller in nature 2-3 days- so my opinion Is not of much value. My recollection is that we charged full price for the first show, 2/3 for the second one and 1/2 for the third show. We never did more than three/day.

We also offer reduced pricing to libraries that bulk book shows- generally 20% to 30% off, depending on the particular situation (number of shows booked, number per day, distance -if any -between shows). Much of this was handled through my brother and was derived through input from others as well as desire to get booked solid, so I not only am not recommending it to anyone, I am seeking and receiving better advice via a business coach on how to approach pricing in general and more complicated booking situations as well.


I didn't give that information is because that isn't how fair buyers work. They're accustomed to a day rate.
So the reason you didn't find value is because you were waiting for me to address complicated package pricing when the answer I gave was based on what fairs actually respond to. Got it? I see where you're coming from though. I could've said "that's not really how it works, but this is..." and it would've been more clear. Always appreciate the feedback.

If a business coach is charging you to tell you how pricing works I guarantee your dollars could be better spent. If you want real, practical advice, let me know. I'd enjoy having you on the show and answer any questions I can. And that's free. Always free.

Robert
cafecheckers
View Profile
Regular user
126 Posts

Profile of cafecheckers
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
If a business coach is charging you to tell you how pricing works I guarantee your dollars could be better spent. If you want real, practical advice, let me know. I'd enjoy having you on the show and answer any questions I can. And that's free. Always free.
Robert


One of the most immediate returns I received from coaching is a better understanding of pricing. I immediately began to book more profitable shows.

I mentioned I performed at several smaller fairs, but that is not the market I am in or really pursuing. I really do like hearing about the different markets though.
RobertSmith
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of RobertSmith
Quote:
On Apr 24, 2017, Cafécheckers wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 23, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
If a business coach is charging you to tell you how pricing works I guarantee your dollars could be better spent. If you want real, practical advice, let me know. I'd enjoy having you on the show and answer any questions I can. And that's free. Always free.
Robert


One of the most immediate returns I received from coaching is a better understanding of pricing. I immediately began to book more profitable shows.

I mentioned I performed at several smaller fairs, but that is not the market I am in or really pursuing. I really do like hearing about the different markets though.


100% agree. Pricing your product correctly is critical.
My point is, if you're paying a coach to explain pricing then you're paying for information that's available for free.
And that's okay. You do you.

Robert
charliecheckers
View Profile
Inner circle
1960 Posts

Profile of charliecheckers
Quote:
On Apr 24, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
100% agree. Pricing your product correctly is critical.
My point is, if you're paying a coach to explain pricing then you're paying for information that's available for free.
And that's okay. You do you.
Robert


All information is potentially available for free. In reality, I strongly encouraged my brother to pay for advice on pricing because it is so critical to every other aspect of his business and something we had very limited knowledge about. Discussions here over the years revealed to us that there are many opinions about pricing, most of it frankly seat of the pants. So we were not paying for pricing information so much as we were paying for informed pricing. We were also paying to have that information available now and through a reliable source. If one were to break down the cost of the information we received so far, as it relates to pricing, it would probably be less than $100. Of coarse this is not the way the services are sold or offered, but just mentioned to illustrate how simple it is to justify a return on investment.

Free advice has served us well. As a matter of fact, I suspect we have taken the free advice offered here farther than most. That being said, investing in specialized services can be the most cost effective way to move forward. Unless one is willing to invest the time to understand our exact needs, interests, limitations, and future expectations, their advice on pricing will be compromised.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20023 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Lou and Tom have encouraged people to go to seminars, expensive ones, to teach people to do that. I agree it can be helpful to get more insight than you can from free advice.

Not "necessary " but can be. Everyone is unique.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » The Fair Question Vlog (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL