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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ W.O.M. Marketing on Social Media (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Ok if that is your thinking then cool.

Personally it is not how I would approach any business but if that is your way and it works for you then good on you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
I donít really see the entertainment business any different from any other business.

Tom


Finally we get to the problem.

The idea that every business is the same is absurd.

This is why experience in THAT BUSINESS matters so much.




FINALLY!!!!

And THAT is what this section is for - matters pertaining specifically to entertainment business.

You can try forever to pound your square peg of conventional business into the round hole of entertainment business and it will never happen. Sure, there may be some conventional aspects that may be adapted to entertainment business - but talk about THAT, explain the differences, create the understanding, not refer to then in general terms. That helps nothing or no one.

This is exactly the root of the problem here and Tom's differing views and often lack of understanding from Myself, Danny & others that operate form the entertainment industry perspectives. This is also what Danny refers to when he regularly points our how Tom is not an entertainer, does not operate an entertainment business and why many of his regular general business perspectives are so far removed from those operating in this industry on a regular or daily basis.

SO much is reveled here that should be considered and understood by many to gain the most out of Tricky Business and who truly want to learn about entertainment business. As I said before, this is exactly why I was invited to be here. Those who fail to recognize and understand these differences need to use this as a great starting point.
WDavis
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Tom,

Reading what you wrote, I feel you may be confusing strategies, functions, and principles with techniques.

Yes there are few overall styles of structure, operation, marketing, and finance. Those are the functions and principles, but the techniques used to achieve those strategies will vary. It is the same with magic, principles are few but methods are many. And just like with magic not every method is best for a situation.

I will give you a specific example using Facebook ads. A mentalist/hypnotist does "adult" based comedy, he won't use the same methods with Facebook as a children's show magician. Yet both use Facebook. The principle of targeting consumers using a place where consumers congregate is the same, but how they attack and who they attack will be different.

Also, not every strategy works for the same. I mentioned in b2b entertainment social media is less important because buyers are not there for business. They are for consumer entertainers. So the strategies they use will be different.

Additionally, with finances. Service companies have low cost of goods sold and high selling and general administrative costs. Whereas manufactures have the opposite. Both use the same income statement but have drastically different methods for booking profits. Banks are even more extreme. All companies have earnings before taxes interest depreciation and amortization except for lending companies. Because their principles of accounting are the same but methodology is completely different based on how they do business. They lend money they borrow- therefore their revenue would be the ebitda of an operating company top line can never be the same as free cash flow or even a proxy to to it as is the case with ebitda. .
TomBoleware
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Like I said, business is about providing your customer with what they want, period. And if it requires going down a different path to do that, ok, but I still say good general/common business sense with be a great help getting there.

I have no problem disagreeing. Not asking anyone to agree with me either. Just my experience with looking back and thinking, in the end 'business is business' and you do what you have to do to do the business.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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That is a completely meaningless generalization.

It is the equivalent of saying "life is just life and you do what you have to in order to live it" when someone asks for a diet and exercise program.

Or claiming that the way birds fly is just do what the have to in order to stay in the air. Well different birds have vastly different methods for doing so.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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[quote]On May 6, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Like I said, business is about providing your customer with what they want, period. [quote]
There you go again making assumptions and generalizations and trying to pass it off as fact. It's not, it your opinion only.

Most interested in buying entertainment DO NOT know what they want or are looking for, don't know how to shop for entertainment or even how to approach the idea of it. They may THINK they know what they THINK they want but 75% of the time or more (depending on markets) they really have no clue. You are incorrect. Again square peg, round hole.
TomBoleware
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Mindpro, LOL

Thatís like me going into a restaurant and having them tell me I didnít come there to eat.

I can see someone calling a talent agency asking what type entertainment they can recommend. But Iím talking business in general of the average magician. Yes if someone calls a magician the odds are good they looking for a magic show. Believe it or not, the MAJORITY of magicians on here donít sing and dance, they do magic shows and that is what they get hired to do. Only a tiny, tiny percentage here make a living working the so called Ďprofessionalí market. I never speak to those. I always speak in general terms to fit the 'majority' of magicians out there. I donít speak to the superstars, those who run huge bookings agencies, etc, I include the little guys, those who are constantly out there beating the bushes trying to sell the show.

So I hope that explains why I was invited here, to simply help our fellow magicians. Smile

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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So how does one progress to higher levels without thinking in that direction?

Telling them they will not progress isn't helping anyone. Giving them bad advice won't either.

But nice sarcastic comment. I know in your world that passes for wit. But you are about half right.

And speaking in general terms is not helpful in the least. Besides usually you are quite specific.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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You can say it as many times as you want Tom it's still incorrect. They may think they want a magic show but most often that is not what they truly want at all. And I'm not talking from an agency perspective but rather a sole performer's perspective.

You go to a restaurant because you are hungry and have the facts to determine what you are hungry for and where you know you can get exactly what you want. That is not how entertainemnt is bought and sold. No, I do not believe the Cafť management invited you to be here either. Again, just because you say it doesn't mean it is real.
charliecheckers
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Like I said, business is about providing your customer with what they want, period. And if it requires going down a different path to do that, ok, but I still say good general/common business sense with be a great help getting there.


Tom - In your Daycare book for magicians, you share very specific content on how to approach this market based upon both your knowledge of that industry as well as your understanding of what a magician could offer. It is safe to say that most daycare owners do not have to be same level of understanding of what they would be desiring in hiring a magician as you did, because they are less familiar with the role we can play towards their goals. Likewise, the advice you offered was specific and directional in nature and far better input than just general business advice.

If someone in this section were to tell someone pursuing the daycare market that business is business, just keep hitting up the daycare owners early and often and out work your competitors with more advertising and marketing materials, they may in fact be setting the reader back because that advice does not jive with what you (as an informed and experienced daycare center owner) shared in your book.
TomBoleware
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Danny I didnít say a word about not making progress, but rather the opposite of that. You grow your business skills by looking outside the box. You look at how others, even in a completely different industry, to see how they are growing. You reach a point where your friend in magic canít be of that much help, so you turn elsewhere. That's what I'm saying. Simple to see really.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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That is nothing like what you said.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Charliecheckers,

My Daycare book was written for the magician wanting to work daycares. Yes it has specific content because I did own a daycare center for 19 years. But we are not talking specific markets here, or at least I am not. Never do. My business experience goes way, way beyond the daycare market. Iíve owned and operated several businesses, also been in all type sales work. Iíve sold everything from vacuum cleaners to million dollar life insurance policies. Smile And that is the reason that I say much of the business experience/knowledge can indeed be carried over from one business to the next. It's all about talking care of business.

The best advice I can give to grow a business is donít be afraid to step outside of your comfort zone to learn new idea. That's all I'm saying.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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And I would add you typically wouldn't look outside your industry (secondary) until you have understanding and some type of prominence in your industry's perspectives, operatives and preferences first. Dealing in generalities is much different than specifics or industry-specifics.

Tom's just on a button-pushing kick again. As charliecheckers clearly pointed out, he should know better and is just trying to push Danny's buttons. It must be a slow day in Mississippi.
TomBoleware
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Believe it or not I love you people. Smile

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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So the only experience they matters is yours? My lord.

Talking in generalities helps nobody grow. Bloviate all you like it doesn't matter.

I never speak about daycare shows. Because I have no idea about them. At least I am aware enough to know it.

And strangely enough you will follow a post that ends with "that's all I an saying" with another post saying even more.

You keep changing what your are saying.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ken Northridge
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Mindpro wrote:

The problem with doing what "others are all doing" and "trying anything new that comes along as long as its free" is time. It takes time and usually money to learn about, research and attempt to implement these "free" things. The questions needs to be is that "time" best and most well spent?

You make a good point. Rate of return on your time is just as important as rate of return on your money.

Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
And THAT is what this section is for - matters pertaining specifically to entertainment business.

This struck a chord with me.

Iíve heard many entertainers (apparently successful ones) justify their business practices by saying this is how large corporations do it. If there was ever a good lesson about how NOT to treat customers itís the one that happened with United Airlines recently. And yet many airlines have practiced this for many years. Why? Because they can. They can get away with it until something like this happens and they have a major public relations problem.

Did you ever want to book a hotel and find out the rate is 3 or 4 times as much on the date you want to book it than an off night? Chances are you will still book it. Large corporations know they can get away with this. But do you feel good about your purchase? No. You feel like youíre getting soaked.

I donít run a large corporation, I run a small entertainment business. I donít have to act like the big boys, I just have to satisfy my customers. I want them to feel good about their purchase. So, I donít raise my rates because they are booking on a holiday, etc. I probably could but I choose not to. I could probably get more money for my shows and work less, but I choose not to. And I certainly donít overbook! I know entertainers who will do this. Double book and take the highest paid gig. Even if youíre David Copperfield, this fundamentally wrong. Look what giant corporation United Airlines is going through now.

Sure I could brag about how much money I made for that ONE gig. But I prefer to have many gigs at a fair price and make every customer feel good about their purchase, ready to share their pleasant experience with their friends (and online Smile )

Plus, as has been agreed by everyone here, doing shows is the best way to get more shows.

PS I was not invited here by management. Smile
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
TomBoleware
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Mindpro can answer but meanwhile I will throw this out there.

Ken, I think your right and I think the Cafť is lucky to have you here, I feel you speak for many of the Ďrealí working magician out there. A true professional; what I call the real deal.

Large corporations and little magicians are apples and oranges. And trying to compare the two is often so misleading to many on here. When you are what I call, the chief cook and bottle washer, (a self employed person) You donít answer to the big boss behind the desk, your boss is the customer, they can hire you and they can fire you. So thatís who you should be listening too. A small business should have one main purpose, and that is to serve its customers. And itís not a place for the lazy to have a good easy job. Dealing with other people is hard word; not always easy pleasing customers, sometimes you have to check your ego.

If we really wanted to help others on here we would drop the huge corporate talk and talk about things like customer service, personal development, etc. In the end its going to be your personality calling the shots anyway.

So let me drop the big secret about running a small business, and I can describe the secret in ONE word, probably the most important word you will ever here on here about your business. This is the ONE thing that all the super successful people have in common, and this ONE thing can separate your success from all the rest in the business world. Itís the reason that mom and pop place has been there for so many years; itís also the reason why only a few superstars, athletes, etc, stand much taller than all the others combined.

That ONE thing is ĎAuthenticityí Certainly a big word for someone like me, I had to spell check it, but itís not important that you canít spell it, but you do need to know what it means. Once you understand the true meaning and will begin to apply it, your business will never be the same.

In part it means that youíre not false or trying to copy everyone else; you are genuine and not trying to be somebody youíre not; youíre authentic and as a business you care about your customers, you treat them the way you would want to be treated yourself; you are transparent and you keep things simpleÖ.. You become the real deal to those in your market.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Then if there is such a difference why the constant comparisons to Apple or Ready Kroc? You say it is the same across the board when it is convenient then switch.

You say it is about giving the customer what they want PERIOD. Now suddenly it is about authenticity. Well that is where you gal down. Other times it is about being nice. Make up your mind.

The fact is you can't possibly know what it takes to be in this business unless you have done it. This is true of most businesses. Heck even speaking about markets one is not in is a leap.

Many aspects of business translate much like birds flying. You still have to stay in the air, but the physical dynamics of each bird make the process quite unique. What works a hummingbird will cause an eagle to never take off or worse yet crash.

You cause harm to those trying to learn by telling them things that simply don't apply.

Entertainment is about a lot of things. First and foremost it is being entertaining at the level beyond your price point. Something that is just assumed here is that everyone is good enough at that to be where they want. Not always the best assumption but people get mad and say you are mean if you mention it.

It is about WAY MORE than one thing or one word no matter what level you are at. Not knowing this is debilitating.

As for treating others the way you want to be treated that is a bad myth. I don't like sales pitches, I don't like all the bs that goes with it. My time is valuable. I am short and to the point. Treating people like that in sales can be disastrous. That myth is very ME centered as it assumes everyone is like you.

Smart business people treat people they way people want to be treated.

Again so many of the myths we cling to can be so harmful.

Yes Tom dealing with others is tough. I just wish you didn't have to keep demonstrating it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Yes, I do notice how Tom likes to deal in generalizations and tries to find ways to make them apply to topics here. This is where his disconnect from entertainment business and the basic foundation of understanding the specifics of entertainment business (which most come here for) and how it differs in many ways from conventional business.

To quote one of Tom's heros...

ďGeneral knowledge no matter how great in quality or variety it may be, is of little use in the accumulation of moneyĒ
Napoleon Hill, Think and Grow Rich
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