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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » W.O.M. Marketing on Social Media (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Tom please read carefully and slowly and try to comprehend. I said nothing about Facebook.

So qualify your statements. How many shows have you directly booked due to Facebook?

Do you run a performance based business that you market in any way through Facebook?

And if your are going to quote me please do it correctly. Here is what I said. "Using something based on someone else using it is uninformed. Just because someone else uses is means nothing."
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Tom didn't make a statement he needed to clarify.... He asked you a question, which you did not answer.

And you certainly did say something about facebook, perhaps if you follow your own advice (read carefully and slowly and try to comprehend) you will see what you wrote and be able to answer Toms question.

Oh... And yes I have run an entertainment business that used Facebook ads (to advertise and sell events, not to book shows.)
I also own an online blog, unrelated to performance, that uses facebook ads.
TomBoleware
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Thanks thomasR,

Danny just likes to twist everything I say into something completely different to make me look bad. He thinks that makes him look good. What a stupid way to try and prove your better than the rest here. He hates the world and everybody in it that disagrees with him. He needs help bad. I’m sure that as a kid he was the one that killed all the cats in the neighborhood. It’s sad that he thinks this forum is all about him and mindpro and that it was put here just for them.

But for the record Danny, I’m sure I have booked more shows through facebook than you have. Actually I still do some annual shows for old corporate clients. Not many since retirement but I do like to stay in touch with old friends. I just don’t brag about what I do or pretend to be great like you do. Go get you some help Danny and stop following me around.


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 4, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:

As far as Facebook marketing goes all I can say is good luck. As far as I know it is Elves and magic.


Is THIS the statement I made about Facebook?

And Tom I payer prior to you. They is not following you. Get over yourself.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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NO you didn’t post prior to me, I replied to Tim’s post about the facebook book,
and you saw it was me and started your usual word scrambling.



Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Tom you came into this thread after me. Can't dispute facts.

I don't care if you post. I don't care if you answer me. Just please try to keep up with reality.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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[quote]On May 4, 2017, Tim Zager wrote:
Vaynerchuk NEVER hides the fact he invests in many of these platforms. I can't count the times he states this in his writings and videos.
Quote:
He mas MUCH to gain by stating this position.


Tim, that is exactly what I said! He often includes this is as examples and when establishing himself and success record. I am only offering this absent information that was not being offered for those unaware. The statement that organic reach is dead and pay is the only way is a limited and opinion statement offered as a blanket fact. It is not. Yes, he has done quite well and does have in an interest in "for pay". Also to clarify that the quote originally offered from Robert as if his, was in fact Gary's. My post wasn't about social media as much as it was offering the proper missing insight some may have unaware of. (However you are right, it is not my forte which I why I refrain from most such threads on the topic.)

So let's review, we had learned 5 things so far:

1. As Danny has said many times interpretation and tone of posts are determined by the reader/recipient. Then of course they twist it to their own benefit rather than for the purpose and intent of the actual topic/thread.

2. Many here still do not have an understanding and concept of Consumer Vs. Professional markets or such blanket information would not be offered as general fact.

3. thomasr doesn't "like" me and seems to be fishing for others to jump on his bandwagon.

4. Keith still clearly has a mono-focused agenda that is transparent to everyone even though he thinks he's being clever.

5. Walter's great efforts seem to be falling on deaf ears.

Carry on...
charliecheckers
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Quote:
On May 5, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
So let's review, we had learned 5 things so far:

1. As Danny has said many times interpretation and tone of posts are determined by the reader/recipient. Then of course they twist it to their own benefit rather than for the purpose and intent of the actual topic/thread.

2. Many here still do not have an understanding and concept of Consumer Vs. Professional markets or such blanket information would not be offered as general fact.

3. thomasr doesn't "like" me and seems to be fishing for others to jump on his bandwagon.

4. Keith still clearly has a mono-focused agenda that is transparent to everyone even though he thinks he's being clever.

5. Walter's great efforts seem to be falling on deaf ears.

Carry on...


What we didn't learn is...whether any of the discussion in the 2+ months and 45 replies were in any way helpful to the OP, as once again someone starts a thread and vanishes. Aside from the usual meaningless banter that distracts, there was at least a book or two recommended as well as a testimonial for one who performs such services.

I have not used Facebook or social media to any great extent, and it would be interesting to hear more from those who believe they have had success and how they are using it to their advantage. I know Josh London has shared some of his success in the past, but it would be interesting to hear from others, with differing business models.
Dannydoyle
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But when you have a different business model you are shouted down here. There is one truth and everyone must follow it.

The idea that Facebook is always useful for everyone is absurd. The idea that "Facebook marketing" is a specific thing done a specific way is absurd. Or ANY marketing for that matter.

But it always has to devolve into a stupid measuring contest here. Our perceived insults from long ago must be answered with sarcasm. I am guilty of it myself.

But guys and gals Facebook marketing is not one thing it can is and should be many. The idea that it is "dead" in some aspect and you then cherry pick quotes from unrelated businesses and argue about that is silly beyond words.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I agree, much here wanders off to personal beliefs and general business applications and often as offered, presented or quoted by others, not ones own experience. Many of these approaches when applied to entertainment business do not have the same results for a variety of reasons. And they shouldn't. Most that boast these fail to understand. Yet many things that work well for entertainment business do not for conventional businesses.

I've just recently reviewed the last 3 pages of threads in this section and would venture to say that probably 80% or more of all topics, perceptions, and misinformation comes from the lack of understanding the single element of the Consumer Vs. Professional markets and operations. Yet amazingly when this entire topic and concept was presented yet again recently it seems to be completely ignored. Instead people would rather pound their chests for all kinds of claims that rarely directly relate to entertainment business.

If your entertainment business is based on or relies primarily on FB or social media, it tells a lot about your business. Your are not as successful as you could be, likely are leaving money on the table and there is much you don't know you don't know. This is something I prove time and time again with every single person I've ever worked with and have never failed to do so yet.

On another related note I have been hearing for the past few years that many performers have had more difficult, problematic and less than optimal performance bookings than ever before (more than double over even 5 years before), which after careful observation and research I can trace directly to social media and electronic communications. So people here can boast and praise their use of social and electronic media all they want, yet as Danny mentions in his "Failure" thread, they rarely talk about the opposing, bad or negative side.

Yes, Danny, the vast majority of performers choose to cling to the very limiting and only minimally (at best) optimal "default" business model they'v ebeen doing since the beginning.
Ken Northridge
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Is there a term for the marketing strategy that throws as much stuff against the wall and see what sticks? If so, that's my strategy!

Facebook and social media? Sure, especially if its FREE! I've seen an increase in people contacting me through Facebook but I'm not doing any ads. Coming up high in a Google search is very important, but I don't use ad words. However, I have 4.9 Google rating that I believe helps (also free).

Of course, the best marketing tool I have ever come across is actually doing a show and having business cards ready for the asking. Nothing will top that, no matter what technology comes out.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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TomBoleware
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Good point Ken. If it is free and it seems to work for some others, why not give it a try. There is no reason a real business shouldn’t try and keep their name out there as much as possible. They say if you build a better mousetrap people will beat a path to your door. That’s not true at all if they can’t find the path. You need signs along the way, and you need more than one.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Ken Northridge wrote:

Of course, the best marketing tool I have ever come across is actually doing a show and having business cards ready for the asking. Nothing will top that, no matter what technology comes out.


Careful. This is where when I say this I am called names by the usual suspects. But since you're saying it then it makes sense. Thus PROVING my point about childish agendas.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WDavis
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Ken Northridge wrote:
Is there a term for the marketing strategy that throws as much stuff against the wall and see what sticks? If so, that's my strategy!

Facebook and social media? Sure, especially if its FREE! I've seen an increase in people contacting me through Facebook but I'm not doing any ads. Coming up high in a Google search is very important, but I don't use ad words. However, I have 4.9 Google rating that I believe helps (also free).

Of course, the best marketing tool I have ever come across is actually doing a show and having business cards ready for the asking. Nothing will top that, no matter what technology comes out.


Ken,

Yes the term is called "shotgun approach"

You mentioned using it because it's free, I am presuming you work consumer markets, and using a b2c marketing framework (Facebook twitter etc to generate business) makes sense, but not all free advertising is or useful. One has to consider the channel used and the relationship to your image and who their end user is. Let me give you an example, for a while The restaurant industry there was a small push to have coop placemats with advertising. The concept was people would look at the adverts and find you. Well, it turned out the ones who used the concept were other restaurants, and realtors. Then locally an adult cabaret decided to pick up those placemats, the marketing efforts of the restaurants and realtors wasn't reaching their ideal customer in that scenario. the idea didn't last long here locally, but at times I see it popping up again in similar ways

The lesson is not all free marketing is good for your business. Someties it's even bad for business because it tells not the right prospect segment or worse you get deadwood who will never buy and just waste your time
charliecheckers
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I too was thinking about how this thread and the one on failure intermingle. One of the biggest failings many of us have is believing what we are doing is successful because we book some shows from the effort, but it is difficult to consider that perhaps we are actually not getting the optimal return on our time and financial investment, are hurting our image or branding by doing certain marketing initiatives or accepting certain shows.

Danny pointed out in this thread that the idea that you should implement a marketing strategy (in this instance Facebook) just because your competitors do so is incorrect thinking, yet his advice was challenged and viewed as him being antagonistic. He stated above that the idea that Facebook is always useful is absurd. Yet how many of us ignore such insights, ignore the input Mindpro shared above, and press on investing time and effort in marketing endeavors because we know others are doing so and claiming success. Is their model the same as ours? Same target audience, price point, buyers?

Walt discussed in a different thread the need for context in our discussions. That is so apparent as one reads through this thread. Advice on Facebook marketing and book recommendations are offered with no specific context as to if it is background knowledge (which of course is helpful) or specific to the needs of the OP, or any of us for that matter. People seem to lump us all together when offering advice, and even across industries. While that is extremely valuable in certain types of discussions, it has a negative effect when discussing specific marketing strategies, such as Orgaic Facebook marketing, which is the essence of this thread. Arguments on both sides (Organic-dead or alive) failed to deal in specifics as to exactly the situations where their implementation was effective and why.

I have read many articles about how one can use Facebook advertising to capture a refined target market of likely buyers of ones product, but this is generally from the perspective of retail products where national exposure is desireable, and on product types one would associate with such advertising. How about specialized entertainment? Do we really wish to have your service viewed by perspective clients alongside retail products or lower end services? Is Scarcity one of the laws of persuasion we leverage, or do we want to be perceived as a commodity? Just because one gets some bookings from a marketing effort does not mean that it was a overall success.
thomasR
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On May 6, 2017, Ken Northridge wrote:

Of course, the best marketing tool I have ever come across is actually doing a show and having business cards ready for the asking. Nothing will top that, no matter what technology comes out.


Careful. This is where when I say this I am called names by the usual suspects. But since you're saying it then it makes sense. Thus PROVING my point about childish agendas.


I totally agree with you Danny... The absolute best marketing is doing the best show possible. Make people remember you... If you're good enough... People will search you out even if they don't remember your Clever website name.
Mindpro
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I too agree with you guys. Nothing will ever replace doing a great show, creating word of mouth advertising and referrals/recommendations. The results are far better than digital social proof, testimonials, ads, adwords or anything. Nothing has ever dethroned this. The key is doing more with this concept that just sitting back and letting/waiting for it to happen. This is where you need to adapt strategeies, specific of entertainment business, our targets and their ways of perception, psychology and influence to utilize this amazing opportunity.

The problem with doing what "others are all doing" and "trying anything new that comes along as long as its free" is time. It takes time and usually money to learn about, research and attempt to implement these "free" things. The questions needs to be is that "time" best and most well spent? Just like actually experiencing something live and in person and word of mouth advertising will never be replaced, the other thing I can guarantee you is time is something you can not create more of. I challenge anyone to create 25 hours a day or an 8 day week.

Leveraging our time and and what we put our time and efforts into is very important. Plus, word of mouth or a live recommendations never changes. How many changes have been made to just Facebook along in the last 5 years. You have to be invested just to stay a sea level.

Also as many seem to miss, getting bookings will not create a successful business. You will always be chasing more bookings. It is never ending, so methods to attain this can only have the same limited results. No entertainer I have ever heard of has said I used FB or social media and I am now set for life. Time and efforts (not to mention money invested) can be utilized to create far better, long-term and residual results.

As charliecheckers eludes to, all this talk is general business, I rarely see anyone here speak of entertainment business.
TomBoleware
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I don’t really see the entertainment business any different from any other business. Any ‘great’ product sitting on the shelf waiting for the customer to come get it will sell. UNTIL that other product sitting beside it starts flagging everyone saying I’m even better. May not be true at all, but many times the better is left sitting there. Nowadays everybody claims to be the best so there is more than one choice out there. Man is there choices on the internet. It takes a very long time to build a good track record to the point that you can simply return to the same clients over and over. Meantime,the new ones will need selling and the old ones re-sold.

Not to mention, most newcomers don’t want to wait a long time so they are constantly selling from the get go, giving the greats even more competition. And if you just sit there, they may just steal your business. It is a constant battle for sure.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 6, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
I don’t really see the entertainment business any different from any other business.

Tom


Finally we get to the problem.

The idea that every business is the same is absurd. Each business has idiosyncrasies that are unique to that profession.

This is a MAJOR issue in thinking and execution. It causes people to believe Facebook marketing is one thing.

Entertainment business IS different as are all businesses for that matter. Not seeing it causes major problems and major shortcomings in that business.

For that matter every level of your business is going to be different if you're making progress that is. This is why experience in THAT BUSINESS matters so much. Taking knowledge applied and moving forward is the key in any business. But you don't learn the same things from every business or even every level of your journey. What worked 10 years ago may not work, and not because of time but because of who and where you are!

All businesses are different. To not understand this is very costly. Try running a construction business the way you run a performance based business.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Of course the products are different, but nah the business end is not that far apart. You simply looking for buyers and yes you may be looking in a different place. But you still out there 'selling' your product.

Major difference is selling a magic show is much easier. In most areas there are not a lot of working magicians out there. Many can and do get business just sitting by the phone. Those who do call already have their mind set that a magician is what they’re wanting, otherwise they wouldn’t be calling. You’re only job is to convince them they called the right one.

If you are in an area that does have competition and you want to learn about sales and how to sell your business, talk to a salesperson, or the business owner who has real competition on every street conner. There is a reason that little store has been there in the same spot so long, you can probably apply that reason to your business regardless of what you selling. Business is about providing your customer with what they want, period.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
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