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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » S.W. Erdnase vs Daniel Madison (65 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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GeraintClarke
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AN OPEN LETTER REGARDING DANIEL MADISON

What started as a campaign with an outspoken member of our community has turned ugly.

As a first in Ellusionist history, one of our team has received death threats.

More than one.

For those that don't know about last week's social uproar regarding Daniel Madison's release 'Erdnase x Madison', the tongue-in-cheek claim of "I'm better than Erdnase, and I can prove it..." created both a positive and negative response.

Madison embraced the good with the bad in these responses.

100% of the negativity came from non-buyers; people who didn't own the project.

In a community this large, not everybody will appreciate the same things, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that the project has value.

Well respected names in the industry started to have their say and some purchased the work to see if they were right or wrong.

As planned from the beginning, we knew that line (I’m better than Erdnase) would be controversial to some but decided to continue the campaign releasing our various videos and upcoming t-shirt images.

"Choose a side" was our lighthearted way of addressing those in favor, and those against Madison.

This kind of fun has been missing from the magic industry and if anything, Ellusionist is all about fun. We ALL came together, even though our opinions differed.

Magic is, after all, a brotherhood.

Despite all the controversy, the project shot to the top of our best-sellers list for this year and has received rave reviews (It's only been released for 6 days or so)

With over 8 hours of content and a year put into the concept, we were and are genuinely proud of what it's become.

The first part of this letter was written to get you up to speed on the issues at hand. But that context informs a very real danger that a member of our community is living right now

VERY REAL DEATH THREATS

A friend joked that there was a price on his head, and Madison's formal apology video had ruffled some feathers. Coming clean on how it was all planned with boastful and comedic timing that quoted UFC Champion Conor McGregor.

3 of these texts were shaken off as keyboard warrior intimidation, but some more threatening texts and intimidating calls started to come through and it all became a bit too real.

Madison is a tough man to intimidate, but Ellusionist as a whole is responsible for his safety, so we’ve chosen to take action on these issues.

Here are two examples out of seven we've asked Madison to screenshot for you (See comments section)... We apologise for the strong language.

The unrecognized numbers and screenshots of threats have been given to Police, along with the information leading up to this. We've been asked to block out numbers incase members of our community contact these aggressors and interfere with Police investigations.

Those responsible, in our view, must have prior knowledge of Madison’s details, and we’d rather it didn’t escalate to real danger at his family home.

OUR NEXT STEPS

As of today, Ellusionist has removed all content from Social Media that could incite such behaviour until this threat has been investigated.

We’ve been asked by local law-enforcement to cease campaign activity in the event that it provokes an attack.

Plans were made for YouTube LIVE game-shows, more videos and contests, but we’ve pulled all of these.

We loved our campaign, but we don’t want to risk Daniel’s safety over a few sales.

On creative calls last week, we joked about #MadisonGate.

Nobody is joking now.

We didn't believe a magic industry release would turn potentially dangerous, with one of our staff coming under threat of attack. It’s not just a social media post on a fan page, this is correspondence and harassment to Madison’s personal phone. Something we’ve never given out as a company.

We implore anyone who knows any information at all to contact us at support@ellusionist.com, your details will be shared with local Police within the UK to find those responsible.
Please join us in appreciating the creative works of all artists within the industry, regardless of their affiliation or views.

Many thanks,

- The Ellusionist Team
(Brad, Adam, Geraint, Daniel, Lloyd, Pete, Will, Oban, Jen, CT, Chris & Dave)
Karl M
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You are still pooring petrol on the fire by publishing the death threates on Face book,stupid things to do,end of
Tim Cavendish
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And yet Madison is feeding it himself on his own facebook page, by posting "YCKMMF" atop Ellusionist's open letter, just an hour ago.

YCKMMF definition:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=YCKMMF

Madison's facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/DANIELmadison.c......tion=ufi

...which, together, suggests that it's all more marketing.
Yuan Moons
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What a complete waste of police time when they could be doing something important...

"I said I was better at playing cards than an old long dead magician and now there's a contract on my life"

I bet they're taking it real serious.
Tim Cavendish
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rjs
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By the way, has there ever been a magician who actually murdered another magician in real life?

I can think of one serious incident that might have led to harm, but I'm not aware of any lethal outcome in magic history.
catweazle
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Yeah, in The Prestige, serious business magic Smile
robd
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This all seems real and not made up at all.
DavidKenney
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People ask me all of the time "what is the best deck of cards for magic" or "what is the best card trick?"

And do you know what I tell them?

Best is subjective.

Is Daniel Madison better than Erdnase?

Unequivocally.

And so are you ... at what?

I don't know, pick a category.

Who is the best martial artist? Bruce Lee? Who is the best escape Artist? Harry Houdini?

Why is he the best?

Because he broke new ground - and nobody can go back in time and break that barrier again.

Just like nobody can go back in time and break the ground that Erdnase broke.

This is what makes them "legendary"

But it doesn't make them the best.

And if we honestly believe that none of us will ever be better... if we honestly believe that our best days are behind us...

Then we are dead as an artform.

Nobody even knows who Erdnase was. All we have is a book with an unknown author. Is Madison (a flesh and blood man) better than a fictitious person?

Yes

And so are you.

What if Madison was not comparing himself to the man, but to the book itself?

Is an 8 hour video presentation on sleights and cheats recorded in 2017 "better" than a book written 115 years ago?

I'd argue there are many reasons to answer "yes" to that question.

Magic is a brotherhood - let's all act like brothers
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, DavidKenney wrote:

Magic is a brotherhood - let's all act like brothers


Ellusionist is trolling the magic community once again. They lie again and again and again, yet cry foul when their integrity is questioned. Maybe one day they will actually act like brothers.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
Joshua Barrett
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, M Pitcher wrote:
The main problem is that this whole thing is totally outdated. If E's audience is the youngsters then they need some serious rebranding.
DM's attempt to look like an MTV star - doesn't really work as he looks like an MTV star of 15 years ago.
The "I am so tired, homeless, need a shower and a sandwich" look is very old and to the younger generation look odd and to adults it looks ridiculous.
The only reason that this silly marketing created a buzz is because our little industry is like 15 years behind.

Best,
MP


So what your saying is that he needs a plaid shirt, beard and thick plastic rimmed glasses ? Smile oh and sailor tattoos
Yuan Moons
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We need an Epic Rap Battle
DavidKenney
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"Nobody knows me, everybody knows the Daniel Madison that is portrayed and put out there. That is where I am the best at - that is where my real skill is. I'm not a good magician. I am not a good gambler. I'm all right. But what I'm the best at is being Daniel Madison... the deliverance of my character and the act itself is perfect; and I don't care if I fit into a category, and I'd rather not. . . . I'm having fun"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeDZMUonL8o
MazingMandy
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On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:
Tom is spreading it around and saying it is awesome what is just as bad as the person what made it,calling Daniel a c*** is bullying and I know where that leads mate,we just had a big bad thing happen in the community and we don't need another one because of this type behavyor what make people feel bad about them selves,end of


It's not bullying if it's true . I swear, magicians are so quick to say things are bullying, it's like an f-ing playground here sometimes.
MazingMandy
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Tim Cavendish wrote:
If someone makes a highly mockable claim with a highly mockable attitude in the name of selling a $100 product, they will be roundly mocked.

It's a corrective mechanism of the marketplace.

Mock on.


This
Iain1986
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That email and open message from Ellusionist really just says it all.

Using the concept of death threats as an excuse to further peddle and advertise a product.

They could have just said, "Death threats have been going on, please let us know if you have more information". Integrity. To the point. No ********, no marketing, no business.

But no.

> 100% of the negativity came from non-buyers; people who didn't own the project.

What a lovely, completely un-verifiable statement.

> If there are any who are unaware of what we’re talking about, this is the project.

I thought this was an email to highlight the issue of death threats? No? Sure, lets link to the product to be sure people go buy it. Gotta get the benefit of a death threat.

> Despite all the controversy, the project shot to the top of our best-sellers list for this year and has received rave reviews (It's only been released for 6 days or so)

Ok..keep peddling.

This whole email/post highlights the real nature of Ellusionist. Preach about the seriousness of death threats, but make sure to advertise and peddle your products while you do it! Preach to the community about integrity, while advertising your wares during a call for information to pass onto the police.

Absolutely appalling.
RNK
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, Chessmann wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, DavidKenney wrote:

Magic is a brotherhood - let's all act like brothers


Ellusionist is trolling the magic community once again. They lie again and again and again, yet cry foul when their integrity is questioned. Maybe one day they will actually act like brothers.


Totally agree Chessmann. After CHANGE I still have never bought one item from them and never will, don't care how good the effect is. The attitude they exhibit towards some people, the same people they call brothers, is demeaning and shallow.

RNK
robd
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There are no death threats. Is that seriously being debated? Nobody issues a death threat over video about Erdnase. Jesus. TheJerx had a campaign running for months where you'd destroy an Erdnase book for made-up internet points. People made videos doing it. Nobody cared. That's why there's no contact details for the police, no reference numbers, nothing substantive - none of the things which actually happen when a death threat is issued. I mean, come on.

This is actual real adults behaving like children to get talked their company about on the internet, and slapping each other on the backs when it happens as if they've won. When really they've just further revealed who they are.

I'm not sure what's worse - them doing it, or that the magic scene is so poor that a middle-aged sleight of hand expert using decades-old pop culture references actually appeals to young magicians.
TStone
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I'm not sure I am reading this right.... but it seems like some people in this thread are defending and condoning actual death threats as a suitable response to an artist's spoof character.

There should be no room for doubt or unclarity, anything that isn't a binary proposition, anything that doesn't state it in black and white should be discouraged:
It is always wrong to track down people's personal info and threaten their lives.
Especially if it is over something as mellow as playing cards.
There should be no arguments over such a simple thing: Don't threaten others with personal harm. Ever!

The conspiracy theorists here who claim to know for certain that this is just another marketing ploy. Just give it up.
Your unfounded opinions and guesswork just muddles the issue. You have no idea what the facts are, and you have no cause or reason to provide justifications for the offender.

It is like people have forgotten how to be human beings.
RNK
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Quote:
On Mar 8, 2017, TStone wrote:
I'm not sure I am reading this right.... but it seems like some people in this thread are defending and condoning actual death threats as a suitable response to an artist's spoof character.

There should be no room for doubt or unclarity, anything that isn't a binary proposition, anything that doesn't state it in black and white should be discouraged:
It is always wrong to track down people's personal info and threaten their lives.
Especially it is over something as mellow as playing cards.
There should be no arguments over such a simple thing: Don't threaten others with personal harm. Ever!

The conspiracy theorists here who claim to know for certain that this is just another marketing ploy. Just give it up.
Your unfounded opinions and guesswork just muddles the issue. You have no idea what the facts are, and you have no cause or reason to provide justifications for the offender.

It is like people have forgotten how to be human beings.


While I do whole heartedly agree with Tom and have no idea about the current story of what's going on, I do know that Ellusionist has blatantly false advertised before and purposely deceived purchasers and then defended themselves with arrogant responses. That is enough for me to stay away.
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