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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » S.W. Erdnase vs Daniel Madison (65 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tim Cavendish
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If someone makes a highly mockable claim with a highly mockable attitude in the name of selling a $100 product, they will be roundly mocked.

It's a corrective mechanism of the marketplace.

Mock on.
WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Tim Cavendish wrote:
If someone makes a highly mockable claim with a highly mockable attitude in the name of selling a $100 product, they will be roundly mocked.

It's a corrective mechanism of the marketplace.

Mock on.


So you're claiming death threats are appropriate?
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PendletonThe3rd
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People are actually upset over this?

Like others here have suggested, DM has a persona and he plays into that. I think it's great. You need that in all forms of entertainment otherwise, things get boring fast.

Take sports for example....the ones who talk a big game are typically the ones that stand out and the one's people actually want/pay to go see.

It is no coincidence that the "Apology" video is a take on a memorable Conner McGregor line.

Conner McGregor became the biggest thing in MMA because of this charisma, his big talk, and his persona.

What DM is doing is no different than what McGregor did. Or what John Lennon did when he claimed he was bigger than Jesus. Or what Oasis did when they in turn, said that they were bigger than the Beatles. The list goes on and on.

You can hate on the DMs and the McGregors of the world, but there is no denying that they are entertaining...and perhaps even necessary in shaking up the status quo.
eboetcker
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, WitchDocChris wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Tim Cavendish wrote:
If someone makes a highly mockable claim with a highly mockable attitude in the name of selling a $100 product, they will be roundly mocked.

It's a corrective mechanism of the marketplace.

Mock on.


So you're claiming death threats are appropriate?


I don't think he made that claim at all....

Either way! I want a real review on the DVDs please! Now that the insanity and mocking has slowed down (what an entertaining 48 hours), I would actually like to know about the product.

Are the instructions on Erdnase really well done and taught comprehensively?

Erik Casey
DavidKenney
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This is not a full review as there is a mountain of data to consume. I can give you what I have learned / discovered so far. First off, the 8 hours of video are NOT Madison teaching Erdnase as a "recap" of the Expert at the Card Table. In other words, he is not necessarily teaching you the book.

Moreover, he is teaching you what he's learned from his years reading Erdnase and his years as a Magician. I think of it like, If Madison decided to write his own book called "The Expert at the Card Table" and he did it in the "style" of Erdnase what would it look like?

He says in his own words:

“How I took the lessons from Erdnase and used them for my own good”

“This project isn’t me teaching Erdnase, it’s teaching what I took from Erdnase and how I made it my own thing.”

So, the project is all shot in black and white (since the classic book has no color) and it's all filmed so that only his cards and hands show (like the classic illustrations) plus the video headings are borrowed slightly from the book. Here is the table of contents and it's run time.

Shuffles & False Shuffles at the table - 1 hour and 33 minutes

False shuffle theory
Table Riffle Shuffle
Push Through Shuffle
Scratch Cut
Blackjack Strip
Ladder Shuffle
Perfect Riffle Shuffle
No Soap Theory
Broken Running Cut
Coat Shuffle (also taught on Mechanic)
Jacket Shuffle
Ghost Shuffle
Broken Bridge Shuffle
Slug Controls

Shuffles & False Shuffles in the hands- 1 hour and 48 minutes

False Overhand Shuffle (also taught on Mechanic)
False ITH Riffle Shuffle
Vice Shuffle (also taught on Mechanic)
Cuts, False Cuts and Nullifying the Cut
Table Slip Cut 1
The Frank Hop (also taught on Mechanic)
The Table Blackout Shift
The Madison Shift
Bypass Cut
Ghost Cut
Amnesia Cut
Over cut
Cuts, False Cuts and Nullifying the Cut ITH
The Classic Pass
The Broken Pass
SWE Shift
The Turnover Pass

Palming and Holding Out - 43 minutes

The Classic Palm
The Gambler’s Cop
The Hotel Cop
The Top Cop
The Slip Cop
The Squeeze Shift
The Ten Steal

False Dealing - 2 hours and 34 minutes

The Madison Grip for Dealing
The Bottom Deal (also taught on Mechanic)
Greek Deal (also taught on Mechanic)
The Second Deal (also taught on Mechanic)

Miscellaneous - 44 minutes (Legerdemain and extra)

Single Handed Shift
Maxican Shift and Brag
Erdnase Color Change
Stacking Ideas
Thank you and credit

-------------------

I will be doing a full review / written and video once I receive the cards and physical book, in the mean time I am happy to field any questions
Tom Wong
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I like how a number of you are badmouthing this product when you don't even have it. I want to see some real reviews rather than you people who are mindlessly guessing that this is bad based on the trailers. Really just get a grip.

What I find even more ridiculous is that DM is receiving threats about this. Absolutely pathetic.

I really thought that the magic community was better than this.
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TStone
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:

Totaly childish mate,not funny at all,and a bit bullying so not inpresed at all,Tom stone you are a big name in magic and shouldnt be spreading hate like this one

Karl, I like Madison, and I made sure he saw AJ's film, via our mutual friend Noel Qualter.
Noel reported back that Madison found it funny and was delighted by the work involved.
Ribbing of this kind is perfectly acceptable and should not be confused for the unacceptable threats that just were mentioned.
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Karl M
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, TStone wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:

Totaly childish mate,not funny at all,and a bit bullying so not inpresed at all,Tom stone you are a big name in magic and shouldnt be spreading hate like this one

Karl, I like Madison, and I made sure he saw AJ's film, via our mutual friend Noel Qualter.
Noel reported back that Madison found it funny and was delighted by the work involved.
Ribbing of this kind is perfectly acceptable and should not be confused for the unacceptable threats that just were mentioned.

Ok Tom but I wonder how daniel really feels,some times people don't want to say because they are embarased,either way its better to put water on the fire than petrol
catweazle
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OMG Elton John on the case now, talk about going viral!!
TStone
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, TStone wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:

Totaly childish mate,not funny at all,and a bit bullying so not inpresed at all,Tom stone you are a big name in magic and shouldnt be spreading hate like this one

Karl, I like Madison, and I made sure he saw AJ's film, via our mutual friend Noel Qualter.
Noel reported back that Madison found it funny and was delighted by the work involved.
Ribbing of this kind is perfectly acceptable and should not be confused for the unacceptable threats that just were mentioned.

Ok Tom but I wonder how daniel really feels,some times people don't want to say because they are embarased,either way its better to put water on the fire than petrol

You are a good human being, Karl. Caring about others is an admirable trait. In this case, you don't have to worry too much though. Madison knowingly exaggerated in order to amuse and provoke, and to amuse and provoke right back is ok. Though, threats are definitely not ok.
Tom Wong
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, TStone wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, TStone wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2017, Karl M wrote:

Totaly childish mate,not funny at all,and a bit bullying so not inpresed at all,Tom stone you are a big name in magic and shouldnt be spreading hate like this one

Karl, I like Madison, and I made sure he saw AJ's film, via our mutual friend Noel Qualter.
Noel reported back that Madison found it funny and was delighted by the work involved.
Ribbing of this kind is perfectly acceptable and should not be confused for the unacceptable threats that just were mentioned.

Ok Tom but I wonder how daniel really feels,some times people don't want to say because they are embarased,either way its better to put water on the fire than petrol

You are a good human being, Karl. Caring about others is an admirable trait. In this case, you don't have to worry too much though. Madison knowingly exaggerated in order to amuse and provoke, and to amuse and provoke right back is ok. Though, threats are definitely not ok.

Glad this was put to bed 🙂
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lord_wallmotto
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I don't really think that anyone is saying that the product isn't good. It might be amazing, who knows? Daniel Madison is very talented and has released some great stuff in the past.

However, what people are saying is that the trailer and the advertisement is beyond ridiculous. Of course the Daniel Madison we see in the trailer is a character, but most adults will still find it ridiculous.
Maxyedid
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Maybe we should blame Erdnase for causing all this trouble
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M Pitcher
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The main problem is that this whole thing is totally outdated. If E's audience is the youngsters then they need some serious rebranding.
DM's attempt to look like an MTV star - doesn't really work as he looks like an MTV star of 15 years ago.
The "I am so tired, homeless, need a shower and a sandwich" look is very old and to the younger generation look odd and to adults it looks ridiculous.
The only reason that this silly marketing created a buzz is because our little industry is like 15 years behind.

Best,
MP
robd
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"If you love Erdnase, then you should love Daniel Madison too. They're pretty much the same thing: monotonous, pretend gamblers. I doubt either of them played a hand of cards with anyone other than their grandma in their entire lives. The only difference between the two is Daniel dresses like he's an extra in a period-piece drama that takes place in Williamsburg, Brooklyn circa 2007."

http://www.thejerx.com/blog/2017/3/5/mad......y-x-jerx
MontrealMagic
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, M Pitcher wrote:
The main problem is that this whole thing is totally outdated. If E's audience is the youngsters then they need some serious rebranding.
DM's attempt to look like an MTV star - doesn't really work as he looks like an MTV star of 15 years ago.
The "I am so tired, homeless, need a shower and a sandwich" look is very old and to the younger generation look odd and to adults it looks ridiculous.
The only reason that this silly marketing created a buzz is because our little industry is like 15 years behind.

Best,
MP




The marketing is actually working better than expected. Ellusionist and Daniel Madison are all anyone has been talking about. The younger generation needs a "rock star", as in it is what appeals to them. Truth be told, no one has given any real evidence to discredit his boastful claim other than "because I said so"....it is like arguing with a trump supporter (HEY-YO!)
Tim Cavendish
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Books, being more abstract, age gracefully.

Video instruction, by capturing personality, style and fashion, does not tend to age so well.

The Michael Ammar videos that were all the rage in the 90s look corny as hell today.

I suspect Daniel Madison will enjoy a similar legacy.
Maxyedid
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So it all started as a criticism to Daniel's promo, then to Daniel's image and now it seems to Daniel as a person (so it seems).
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RiBo
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Quote:
On Mar 5, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I think A J Green is my new favorite magician. Smile

Although Mr Madison "promised" in his last sentence of his hype "This will be my last major project - DM", I was able to channel the spirit of Nostradamus earlier today and he told me this was a play on words. Mr Madison is "allegedly" planning a project for the fall entitled "Dai Who???" With his complimentary copy of the "Annotated Madison Touch" in which every great effect of the past becomes a cheapened version of the classic effect so he can call it his own without crediting. In order to not be considered a "major project" he will only be charging $99.94 and there will only be 7 hours of his inane babble plus 2 used decks of bridge sized Dollar store decks included.


That's the problem, the term 'Major' is too subjective.
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