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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » Fan from BP position question (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

markis
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So more times than not after I produce several single productions from backpalm the cards end up “scooting” down towards the wrist and I am unable to produce a fan with the remaining cards since my thumb won’t reach the corner of the card that is against the pinky finger. I could continue to produce the singles but it would be nice to produce a fan. Anyone else have this issue?
Bill Hegbli
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What is your source material?
Anatole
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How many cards do you start out with? Try reducing the number a little. What brand are you using? Are you using poker or bridge-size? Are they special manipulation cards or regular cards (e.g. Bicycle, Bee, etc)
Any of these factors--and as Bill mentioned the source you are learning from--could affect your technique.

I have also found that sometimes there's a moment when everything suddenly just clicks--like learning to ride a bicycle--and you wonder: "Why did I have so much trouble learning this???"

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
markis
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Thanks guys, It doesn’t seem to matter the type of card. I use Bees but I also have/had Peter Marvey’s, Lance’s, YU Hojun’s, etc. As far as instruction I have McBrides AoCM, Tony Clark’s Award Winning DVD and Stepen Vanel’s. The less cards I use the less problems I have. Thanks again
Bill Hegbli
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I can only suggest you work on your front and back palm, keeping the cards in the correct position. When in the front palm, you can use the base of the palm to scoot the cards forward.

My assumption is that you are not gripping the cards hard enough to keep them in the correct position.

Also it may be that you have not broken-in your cards correctly, or at all. You can read Lewis Ganson's technique for breaking in cards for back palming in his books.

Also you may not be using fanning powder, I would wager. If you are going to back palming these need to be used or your cards will not conform to the proper actions.

For me I can back palm a full deck of manipulation cards, when it come to regular cards I an only back palm about a fourth of deck. This means for steals, that have to be made to reload, and more acquantments needed.

You are much better to use a tool that works instead of fighting with something that was not designed for your purpose.

If you want Bee type cards, then I suggest the Million Card Deck in poker size from Japan with a bee back design.

https://www.stevensmagic.com/shop/million-card-deck-ugm
Nick W
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Hi Bill, have you used the UGM deck? Are they Bee thickness or do they run thinner? I read the link you sent, seems that are a little bigger than regular cards...
Bill Hegbli
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I have the original UGM red bee back cards previously sold for #18.00, I don't have the one I referenced, as I had no knowledge that Seo and Stevens sold completely out. I don't know how much larger they are. Yes, they are manipulation card thickness (thin). Not much good if they were the same thickness as regular Bee brand deck. I can back palm the whole deck. The are very nice in my opinion, and good quality.

Why these manufacturers always change a good product is beyond me, they always listen to the minority that screams the loudest.

Looks like the beige bee back design just called Million, is not around any longer either, I like them for the blending better. Looks like they are gone as well.
Nick W
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It is cool to backpalm an entire deck, the productions can go on forever if you split them right. I found that with regular stock cards they pop out much faster than the thin ones. For me that makes regular thickness cards better than the thin ones. But it all depends on the routine and comfort of the performer. I agree, when an item changes that didn't need to be changed, frustrating:)
Bill Hegbli
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Nick W., If you have not purchased these cards from Japan, you will find that they are plastic coated, which makes them stiffer then say the lower priced Nielsen's, and the ones from England. They are more comparable to the Lance Burton Decks, but a little more springy.
markis
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I received my million dollar card deck from Steven's today and unfortunately I don't care for them at all. Maybe the changed the material they use in manufacturing. They are the typical thinness of a manipulation deck but they are just as stiff as a new Bee deck and don't seem to be breaking in. I can backpalm the entire deck of YU Hojun’s not even close with these. It would be nice if YU Hojun came out with poker size cards. Back to the Bee cards!!
Bill Hegbli
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Again, I think you are missing the secret ingredient, it is strength in you finger, you have to squeeze he cards into a curve with the back palm. It is not a relaxed finger grip. Each finger is suppose to be next to each other, no separation. That takes some strength. The nice thing about the Million cars is that they can be curved and the spring back.

If you just got the cards, how on earth did you break them in so quickly, it usually takes me a week of shuffling face up and face down, Riffle shuffling face up and faced down, cutting multiple times, fanning from all directions. And a little fanning powder.
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