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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
Some are not in their 8th, 9th and 10th years.


Correction: This was supposed to read: "Some are NOW in their 8th, 9th and 10th years."
cafecheckers
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Wow- lots to take in here. Mindpro, thanks for providing your detailed perspectives and content.

It does seem that a lot of the back and forth here has to do with differing understandings of the topic of coaching. That is not a bad thing, because there is no one definition as it relates to entertainment. Sometimes it becomes frustrating when we don’t understand one another, but it causes us to stretch ourselves in better conveying our thoughts on complex issues. That’s a good thing. Mindpro stated earlier in this thread that his students describe their experience as if they are getting an advanced degree. I believe this is a very good way to conceptualize coaching, as it relates to what Mindpro offers. The only difference is that there is far more specific content and much deeper experiencial learning because he is working with you one on one with your individual business.

If I was enrolled in a MBA program while still being a full time student in undergraduate, no one would likely be asking me a year and a half into my MBA program to provide specific examples of how my MBA pursuit has contributed to my financial well being or narrowly look at each learning activity with respect to how it contributes to my objectives. Working with Mindpro has provided me with immediate revenue opportunities, but I could not be more clear or consistent in stating that it was/is not why I sought his coaching. It is not what excites me to continue working with him.

I created the video to try to better be comprehensive, but even then I found I fell far short of conveying all the aspects of how Mindpro has contributed to my development. Truly, the number one thing he has done is reshape and enrich my way of thinking. He has done so in a way unlike anyone else I have ever encountered. People speak of how much one can gain from the internet these days, but in reality by far the number one thing it has done for me and my business is to connect me with great minds across the world. Reaching out to those individuals beyond on-line discussions has really meant the most. My brother deciding to participate here nearly six years ago connected us to many with unique talents regarding performing, prop creation, show production, and business. I believe ego prevents many here from seeing and pursuing such opportunities, but we have done so extensively.

Describing the value one gets from a MBA, or advanced degree is difficult because the value is seen over time. For some, it offers them opportunities they otherwise would not be able to obtain. For other, it allows them to be seen differently by those in their industry. Regardless, transforming and enlarging ones capabilities in a broad sense is the underlying benefit. That is how I approach working with Mindpro. It is exactly what I was seeking. Honestly, there was no plan B, meaning no one else would have sufficed as a back up plan. That is how unique his offering is, and I owe the internet a debt of gratitude for connecting us. I challange anyone to provide an alternative choice. Share the name of anyone who comes with similiar credentials. Don’t say you don’t know his credentials -that’s a you thing. He has produced numerous industry resource materials, shared volumes of content and insights here over the years. He shared very specific details of his willingness to offer time, passion and personal investment far beyond the stated relationship. Most importantly, he understands and has publicly stated that he is not interested in making replicas of himself. Read his post yesterday that describes his involvement and then reflect on whether or not you know anyone who is even remotely close in terms of ready, willing and able to offer assistance.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
It has seemed since the beginning there are some (yourself included, Robert, Tom, Keith, CDguy and others) that were having trouble understanding it,


It’s not that we don’t understand the coaching, it is we don’t understand the coach.Smile

Tom
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Mindpro
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As he said..that's a you problem! And no, you don't understand it. (I don't know how to put the same smiley face)
Mindpro
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Smile Just figured it out.
thomasR
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I immediately regret typing this but how is it my fault I don't know the actual credentials of the only "business coach" I've ever heard of who chooses to remain 100% annonimous? Can anyone point me to any other entertainment business coach who uses this practice?

That being said.... My argument to you would be the same with or without mindpros coaching. It seems like a slow track to me, however that's me. You see it as a fast track to a long term business. Neither of us will know how that works out until 5 years or so. Will be interesting to see. Hopefully you'll continue to keep us all updated.
Mindpro
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Again, your seeing things in your own context. I am not 100% anonymous, only here on a publicly searchable forum, where my identity could cause both a conflict and damage to my other businesses, clients and employees. It is a preventative measure that most once presented with completely understand. Also most here do know my identity. This perception is one that a few uninformed members have created in their own but is far from the truth or reality. Actually, the very first thing I say to a new client/student when we first talk is I introduce myself and real name, and an explanation of why a username is necessary. They all understand and respect it immediately.

Btw I know of several other business coaches that do the same thing so they can talk openly without jeopardizing contracts, business clients, employees and strategies. I'm sure I didn't invent this. This is a byproduct of the online generation that we see so prevalent here. The fact that we have members that believe if they can't verify something on Google it can't be legit or factual is so crazy. One must remember, many of us had much success before all of this online world came into existence. That should not be overlooked if anything it should be more greatly understood, appreciated and valued, as those that operate solely from the online perspective are missing a large majority of a greater picture.

When people are making years of progress in a few short months, doubling and tripling earnings and profitability in a few short months, advancing their business in ways they never imagined and are learning more about entertainment business, customer service and the true needs of their customers in a few short months when many of these guys (and gals) haven't done this after years of their own individual learning, is so hard for me to see how you would consider any of this slow.

There are members here which I won't identify but many of us remember that claimed "just wait to see where this guy is in 5 or 10 years, only to find they have achieved little and have perhaps only minimally advanced, where yet we are seeing examples of guys that have made far more progress in mere months than these others have in years or a decade. I fail to understand how you aren't seeing or understanding this unless of course you are not truly trying. I'm not sure what more proof he or anyone could possibly give you. As I said, for those that don't want to believe no explanation will suffice.

To answer your first question in the above post it IS your fault you are not getting it, your fault that I seem to be the only business coach YOU know and the only one who chooses to be 100% anonymous. All of these have "you" all over them. You have read the same information Cafécheckers and others have that get it, YOU (yes, another "you") are choosing not to accept it. Expand your knowledge, your net, your learning. You are the only one limiting yourself here. Check out Barry Friedman, Lou Serrano, Randy Charach and others. In doing so you will also find that some of their students end up coming to me for their real progress and breakthroughs. I had hoped some of these other newfangled "online coaches" would have chimed in here more, but I guess not. Again, they are only teaching what they know or a specific niche (limiting) as it applied to them. Trust me, you will be hard-pressed to find someone who coaches and operates from an industry level with experience in all six main areas of the industry. As Cafécheckers said, he challenges you (or anyone) to do so. I said it pages ago - no one teaches what I do and how I do. Not boasting, simply a fact. Others have known it for years, some have just more recently discovered this, others simply fail to want to accept this (again, their own limitation), but it is the reality.

As I train my students when you offer and do what no others can, you have no competition, only imitators (that almost always fall short)...and of course, naysayers that would rather believe their own uninformed thoughts and opinions than the reality (not meaning you thomasR, just in general).
lou serrano
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This is an interesting discussion, and as I stated early on in this thread, I'm a huge proponent of private coaching. This recent discussion enticed me to crunch some numbers on the value of the coaching I've received over the last couple of years. This is what I found.

Back in 2016 I invested in coaching with both Barry Friedman through his ShowBiz Blueprint program, and Randy Charach in his two-day private coaching bootcamp. Combined I invested a total of just over $7,000. In the two years that have passed, I've been able to decrease my number of bookings by 43%. Yes, you read that correctly. My total number of bookings DECREASED by 43%. At the same time my income INCREASED by 30%. So fewer gigs at much higher pay. It is difficult to qualify which ideas, principles, and strategies from each coach that is responsible for this increase in income, because I've incorporated it all into my current system of growing my business.

At the end of last year I invested almost $10,000 in receiving private coaching from David Hira in Dallas, TX. If I look at the first three months of last year and compare them to the first three months of this year, my bookings have decreased by 51%. That's right, a DECREASE of 51 percent! Yet, my income in that same period of time has INCREASED by 15%. Can I attribute that increase to David Hira. No, but I can attribute it to all that I've learned from David Hira, Barry Friedman, and Randy Charach combined.

Some people might view coaching as a waste of time and money, but in my experience, finding the right coach or coaches has been a great benefit to my business.

Pick the right coach. Find someone with a proven track record for success, someone who is also a great coach, and do what they say. If they're the real deal, and you're a good student, you should see tangible results.

Respectfully,

Lou Sserrano
Mindpro
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Interesting. I do not consider the things you mentioned coaching. Those are (group) seminars, workshops or training events. Yes, I host those myself, but only as an additional service for my students/clients, with rare exception. These are usually a specific topic or niche training and are not at all coaching in any sense that I would consider or to what is being discussed here.

These usually have a specified curriculum and while they may offer email, phone support, a private group or discussion area or access to info or a resource site, then of course and I'm guessing likely followed by an advanced premium group or Alumni group, etc., all based on an online marketing formula (complete with a JW launch and, as we've seen here, affiliate programs offered at the end). These are not at all near the same as to personal coaching or what Cafécheckers or myself have been talking about. These are simply programs or training courses. Two different animals.
thomasR
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Well Lou's examples showed real results with real numbers. So yes I would agree that those courses seem to offer something different than your coaching.
Mindpro
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I agree, as that was my point is what he was referring to as coaching was not, just education. There is a difference. Coaching includes this education among a great deal more, but programs, courses and seminar events do not include coaching (even with continued access). Just making the distinction for the purpose of better understanding this thread and the perspectives Cafécheckers is offering.

It (his numbers and post) also unveils something that I have a problem with but am not sure I want to get into it here. It is something that has been a main point of my coaching and its foundation all along, and a problem I have with the path Lou (and similar others) has chosen.

Lou's example, though not coaching, does show results are possible through other means of education as well (just not the same results trying to be expressed here).
lou serrano
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Mindpro,

How do you know if the coaching I received was coaching or merely education? Were you there?

The COACHING I received from Randy Charach was Private Individual Coaching. I was NOT part of a group. There wasn't a specified curriculum. This was coaching in the truest sense. ShowBiz Blueprint is Group Training coupled with Group Coaching. As for David Hira, I've invested in BOTH Group Coaching AND Private Coaching. And just because the coaching programs aren't in the forms that YOU offer doesn't exclude them from being labeled Coaching.

The results I've posted speak for themselves. There are plenty of other benefits I've received as well, but the results I posted are the most tangible.

It seems like you're using semantics to twist this thread into something that it wasn't. Go back and read Cafécheckers original post. He wanted to hear about the experiences of others who have also hired personal coaches. I gave my experience, and now you're trying to invalidate what I've said, because it doesn't fit YOUR definition of coaching. If the title of this thread was labeled Mindpro's Coaching then you'd have a point, but it isn't.

I will end with a quote from your student.

Quote:
On Mar 30, 2018, Cafécheckers wrote:
It does seem that a lot of the back and forth here has to do with differing understandings of the topic of coaching. That is not a bad thing, because there is no one definition as it relates to entertainment.


Lou Serrano
Mindpro
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Lou, you are taking offense to what I've said which is exactly why I won't go into what I really wanted to get into (and what needs to be stated). The point is, whether you agree or not, the events you attended were limited time, specific curriculum/theme trainings. The supplemental support is just that, not coaching. Now with that said, all of these are based on an online guru marketing business model I referred to earlier. This is what the online world considers "coaching" these days (life coaches, dating coaches, financial coaches, happiness coaches, etc.), when it really isn't. It's simply limited information and education. If you want to accept that definition, fine. After (or while) you attended these trainings, you may have been offered an upsell or "backend opportunity" of continued training or perhaps "coaching", but that was not what occurred at these limited time events.

As I've stated here before I am well aware of these and all that is out there. It is my business. I am glad you feel you received growth, benefits, and value out of these. It is far more than just different definitions of "coaching" though. We are comparing apples and oranges here. With each of these, you are learning someone else's path. Did you take what they offered and add it to what you already had in existence and in motion (you probably think you have), or did you change to what they taught, did and experienced? This is a huge difference. Just by the post above you've done things I would never suggest or tolerate (I'm sure you will take that in the wrong way, in your own context rather than understanding what I am actually saying). Glad you were happy with the results of those trainings and you feel they were worthy investments.
lou serrano
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Quote:
On Mar 31, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
The point is, whether you agree or not, the events you attended were limited time, specific curriculum/theme trainings. The supplemental support is just that, not coaching. Now with that said, all of these are based on an online guru marketing business model I referred to earlier. This is what the online world considers "coaching" these days (life coaches, dating coaches, financial coaches, happiness coaches, etc.), when it really isn't. It's simply limited information and education. If you want to accept that definition, fine. After (or while) you attended these trainings, you may have been offered an upsell or "backend opportunity" of continued training or perhaps "coaching", but that was not what occurred at these limited time events.
.


Again I ask, were you there?

I know you believe you know a lot about people. At one point in one of our private online conversationss you stated that you knew a lot about me including that I was new to the business with less than 10 years experience as a professional magician. I had to correct you, because you obviously knew little about me.

I think you're making way too many assumptions about things you don't have first hand knowledge about. You have no idea what arrangements I had or have with my coaches. You are making a lot of assumptions, and many of them are incorrect. Unless you sought out coaching from these people, you really have no idea what is truly involved, and even if you did seek out coaching, your arrangements might be different than mine. So to paint all coaches and coaching programs one color is an error on your part.

Lou Serrano
Mindpro
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Again, you are taking things out of context. When I said you were relatively new, I met to the current path you were pursuing. I know all about your music/band days, closeup/restaurant days, and even more personal things. Again, you read what you want. As far as you going down the path of professional markets, higher-paying corporate bookings and trade shows, etc., yes, I would consider you relatively newer to that path. Not a bad thing. Sure it is a progression from what you may have been doing but quite different.

I'm not here to assess you, and yes, I know each of these trainings quite well. I have always spoken very highly of Barry's as it is one of the two I would ever consider as decent, but again, with that said, it is limited, based on his experience and not all-encompassing, which he would likely agree. While I disagree with some of his moves and choices over the past couple of years, I would still recommend it - as training and a more so a mindset approach. As I said, I get some students of his (and yours) and am quite aware of approaches and content. It is not assumptions but information based from experiences. You may disagree with them, but they aren't just assumptions. I study and evaluate talent and performers every day of my life. I am usually quite accurate. Sometimes performers see themselves differently other that others or perhaps the reality.

Nothing I stated about these programs, approaches or business models is incorrect.
thomasR
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On Mar 31, 2018, Mindpro wrote:
I know all about your music/band days, closeup/restaurant days, and even more personal things.


Umm... that's just creepy. Like seriously creepy.
Mindpro
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I'm not sure why, it isn't private information as it is known openly, by many. Again with your own context and it is always negative-based.
Mindpro
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Lou, let me ask you a direct question. Do you consider yourself a coach?
lou serrano
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Mindpro,

I do consider myself a coach and so do my clients.

Now I have a direct question for you. What do you know about my training with Randy Charach and David Hira?

Lou serrano
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No, I never said I was there. I said I am well aware of these and what is out there. I never insinuated I was there with you. I know David's content and format, and Randy's may be more encompassing but it again is based on his own experience, actually, both of them are. It was actualy probably a great thing that you were the only one who showed up for Randy's training as it allowed it to be more individualized than what you would have received if it were a group setting. He still does much of that Millionaire Magician (or whatever it was called) material. As far as continued coaching it is more focused on your own specifics. While I don't know, you likely got more out of David's as far as hands-on, but since it is subjective, I could be wrong. I was speaking strictly in terms of knowing their content. Of course, also from the small bits of what you shared here as well. I am also aware that unlike some magicians that only follow and heed advice from other magicians that (and I believe you've even stated this here before perhaps) that you also follow some other gurus outside of entertainment which you probably have gained from as well. I believe you actually attended an online event I was a guest on if I remember correctly a couple of years ago. And also you had some of Benji's stuff too.
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