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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
FalseDeal,
No, but that was a strip-out shuffle and not a push-through. Rod had a very idiosyncratic way of shuffling and cutting cards and developed several false cuts and strip-out techniques to go along with the way he had handled cards most of his life. That sequence was "his" strip-out shuffle and it's rather difficult to do well, especially with bridge-sized plastic cards (his preferred deck). Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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cbharrelson Regular user 167 Posts |
That is a very nice stripout. As I mentioned earlier this was a method I had seen in print the finger stop as third finger right hand instead of third finger left hand it is a very deceptive stripout. Rod had a very nice touch with the paste boards.
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 6, 2017, FalseDeal wrote: No, it is not a finger stop shuffle. Without detracting in any way from Rod's ability or capability, this is an example of why there are strict procedures used in casino/card room poker games for shuffling and cutting. In fact, all casino table games, including those that use automatic shufflers, have strict procedures in place for the shuffling and cutting process. While a myriad of shuffles and cuts may dazzle the inexperienced onlooker and imply the deck is being extremely well shuffled, it is a red flag for more experienced players and suggests that card cheating manipulation may be occurring. In professional poker games, when the dealer deviates from riffle, riffle, strip, riffle and cut it alerts the game operators and more knowledgeable players that something may be happening since there is no valid reason to deviate from established procedure. It is harder to stack and engage in other forms of chicanery during the shuffle when the procedure is strictly defined and limited. In addition, although the "RRSRC" procedure does not achieve perfect random distribution, it is effective enough distribution for a poker game and also enables the house to get as many hands dealt as possible. Too much shuffling slows down the game, limits the number of hands dealt per hour (thereby cutting down on the house rake) and creates more opportunity for nefarious manipulation. While it is obvious to someone who is acquainted with the finger stop shuffle that this is not what is occurring here, because of the somewhat obscuring/concealing downward angle of the camera (which is not the same angle one would view this shuffling procedure across the table in a poker game), makes it more difficult to ascertain with certainty all that is occurring. however, enough is occurring to raise some red flags. The myriad of cuts and especially the final cut after a running cut would definitely cause a knowledgeable and experienced player's head to snap a little. This is an example where more is actually less. Of course I realize this video was a casual demonstration over coffee and don't know what Rod's exact cutting and shuffling procedure was when dealing private poker games so this is not a criticism of him or his methods as he obviously was a very capable guy. |
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
@Cagliostro
It looks like he's pushing the right half diagonally outwards slightly but with the cover with the top portion of the left half. The front left corner of the right half might get stopped by his left third finger undercover. Would you think this is the case? It's a deceptive shuffle anyways. I watched this clip before but didn't realize it was a strip out till this time. |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Simon,
I saw Rod do this shuffle hundreds of times. He may have made incidental contact with a finger here or there, but this wasn't a finger-stop strip out by design. Sometimes he'd go for the squaring action but would come up a bit short (with more of the cards exposed that he wanted) and would slowly push them together just a tiny bit more as he continued to fake the square-up. If this shuffle had been engineered as a finger-stop shuffle that wouldn't have happened (since you just push until your fingers hit a wall.) Can you do this as a finger stop shuffle? Sure you can. I've played around with it for years now even though my go-to shuffle is a push through. But it wasn't developed as a finger-stop shuffle. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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cbharrelson Regular user 167 Posts |
Then it is probably more like Richard Turners pull out?
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cbharrelson Regular user 167 Posts |
Jason you have an extensive library. Have you seen in print a method where they did say it used a finger stop?
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2017, SimonCard wrote: It certainly can be done that way and that is one of the methods I worked with over the years. It is fast and sure. There are several ways of setting up for a strip out shuffle and there are other ways as good as the way Rod is doing it. Certainly there are ways more deceptive than the finger stop described initially on this thread. The first method I ever learned was Charlie Millers Strip-out in Expert Card Technique at 14 years of age and it was, and it still is, just about as good as any. I tried a number of other techniques but primarily use a Modified Miller technique in which the right finger does the push as opposed to the method described by Miller and the square up is done immediately. That is about as deceptive as any and better than most. There is no magic to any of this stuff. There is no one "best" method or "Holy Grail" technique regardless of the "credentials" or super-star status of the person one wishes to emulate and whether or not it is used by hustlers. Of course it is interesting to see other methods but for those that actually do instead of just search for, pick a good method and run with it. It is not necessarily the technique that makes the shuffle good but more the person doing the shuffle that makes it deceptive and effective. However, I am with Jason England. I prefer a push-through as opposed to a strip out as in in more sure and faster as far as I am concerned. |
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
Thanks Cagliostro and Jason for the info.
Since the push through shuffle is also mentioned, I have another question about it. What are your opinions on the the pace of the push through shuffle. The two types I've seen both done extremely well are pushing through with a small angle and then stripping out with a fine brief, another is pushing through and stripping out kindda mingled together in faster pace and with larger or wider briefs. |
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camron Regular user 160 Posts |
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On Apr 9, 2017, SimonCard wrote: I honestly use a "Healthy" brief. The hands, if kept on the table mask the brief anyway. I use a nice, casual pace when I do it. I try to keep the same speed as when I use other sleights. Justin |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 9, 2017, SimonCard wrote: Either way, it really depends...Paper cards or plastics, moderately used deck or brand new cards, doing partials or maintaining complete deck order, continuous shuffles or cutting after each shuffle, how alert the people are using it against are, whether you are doing demos or using it under fire and so on... I don't think there is a "right" way or "better" way under all conditions or in all situations... it depends on other factors. But...if you are a beginner or student and/or demonstrator, find a good way that works for YOU and stick with it. Then again, there are different techniques and different uses. One can also combine strip-outs with pull-throughs and so on. Heck, one can even throw in a breakout shuffle in the sequence or uggghhh - a Zarrow. Yes, there are basic simple answers which work well, but when and if one gets beyond the cookie-cutter stage and starts to use his individual ingenuity, that is where it really gets good and where one can excel. But for most, just stick with basic stuff... |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts |
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On Apr 10, 2017, camron wrote: That works...Nothing wrong with that. |
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luvisi Special user 601 Posts |
For what it's worth, Greater Magic has a strip out of this general type on page 173. It's method "b" of the push through, although it's not a push through.
The one in Greater Magic does not use a finger as a stop, but the packets are kept telescoped instead of being squared at an angle, as in Miller's handling. In the mid 1990s, Paul Chosse taught me a cold deck sequence that he said came from Rod. It used a strip out and Paul used both third fingers as stops. The cards were in a slightly inverted V setup while being pushed in. This sequence is different from the one in the video that Jason posted, but it has a similar feel, with triple cuts before each shuffle and before a final cut. Andru
Andru Luvisi
http://www.practicenotincluded.com/ |
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