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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Royal Magic CSB? (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tonsofquestions
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I have a couple of of items with Chinese coins, and they're of the Royal magic variety,
They look like this: http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2003
Rather than the Johnson style (http://104.244.124.250/~empirema/diyFiles/images_em_coins/chincnjp.gif, their image seems broken here: http://www.johnsonmagicproducts.com/shop......_id=130)

Up until now, that's been fine by me, since I actually prefer the style I have.
However, I've decided I want to get a CSB set, and I'd like it to match, but all the ones I've seen use the other kind.
Does anyone know if there are any using this style coin? Does Royal Magic really not make one?

Suggestions welcome. Thanks!
pabloinus
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TOQ, I have not seen a CSB with the Royal chinese coin, but just in case and while it is not what you are looking for Jokermagic sells a chinese set of coins that can be used as CSB, all coins are fake Chinese of different colors
tonsofquestions
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You mean this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvHC7IOM7f4

I'm not sure that satisfies either of my desires - it doesn't match the Royal magic coins at all, nor is a CSB (a little similar, is my guess?) so I imagine many of the routines are out. A quick search makes me think it probably doesn't even have matching coins, so I can't use it in other routines first/after. Something worth considering, perhaps, but for an entirely different purpose.

I'd prefer to use different coins (not just different colors - I know Mark Mason has a Orient Express set that I believe is a proper CSB, just with different colors of Chinese coin. I can't tell which style they are.

Thinking on this more today (I was a bit tired last night), I realize I might be able to do something equivalent by just buying a matching sh**l, which Royal magic does sell, and construct my own with a different coin I already have. Am I right that it would be equivalent, or am I forgetting something?

As a follow-up question, I guess the other thing to ask is whether Royal magic has any matching Chinatown Halves, since I haven't seen reference of those anywhere, either.
Rick Holcombe
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If you have the book Coinmagic you should check out Geoff Latta's routine CopSilBrass. It's a fantastic routine that doesn't employ the CSB gimmick, but you get all the transpositions and I belive it's just as powerful/visual.And you can use the coin you have already.

Here's a very well performed version:
https://youtu.be/wWdcTaOZVeI
pabloinus
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TOT, I meant Joker Chinese coin of vision, which is a CSB, similar to Mason's trick without Mason's routine. Not your chinese coin for sure in either one.

Your idea of a matching shell could work only if the nested c/s when shown, will look like a real coin and not a coin with a weird border because of the shell. I tried once with a shell and a C/S that I liked it and you could tell that when the C/S was nested it looked like a coin inside another, really bad.
tonsofquestions
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Rick: I do have that one, but don't remember the routine. I'll have to check it out over the weekend. The routine is well done, but it feels strange that half of his displays are slow, and the other half are rushed (with a capital T for Tenkai).

Pablonius: Ahh, interesting. My search hadn't turned that one up. It does seem closer, and I like the double-sided you can do with the sh**l because of the enamel, though probably more likely to wear, too. A good point about DIY sets - I hadn't realized the insert was closer to a Sun/Moon insert, though thinking about it more deeply, it makes sense why it would need to be.
Tom G
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As for Latta's CopSilBrass you can see Geoff perform it on Vol 2 of the NY Coin Magic Seminar.
inigmntoya
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My experience with Royal Magic coin gimmicks puts them at the lower end of quality.
Personally, and I realized its just my own opinion, I never really liked their "Chinese" coins with the dragon.. they just look fake to me -- not that the other designs are genuine either.

I do understand about wanting everything to match*, and the expense of replacing what you already have if you switch designs, but in the long run I think you'd be better off by going with something along the lines of Johnson's quality for a CSB set.

*I've probably got 5 or 6 different kinds of "Chinese" coins... Smile
tonsofquestions
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That's fair, I appreciate the advice. I'll give it some more thought. The Luohanqian coins are my favorite style, but they don't make *any* gaffs of other types that match, sadly. I guess I could go get something custom, but it feels premature for that.

In the end, I may pick up a shell, just because it's so cheap and would let me experiment early.
FrankHorng
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Do you know a product called Louhanqian? It is the best fake Chinese coin I have ever seen.
tonsofquestions
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Yes, in fact I mentioned it in the post before yours...
They're beautiful coins, but they don't have much in the way of gaffs, which makes it a little harder depending on the effect.
mh1001
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Quote:
On May 3, 2017, FrankHorng wrote:
Do you know a product called Louhanqian? It is the best fake Chinese coin I have ever seen.

I don't know much about ancient chinese coins, but my parents who are also chinese don't know which chinese coins look fake, which one are real. They told me that probably most of them you will see are actually fake. Of course, if you have a dragon on the back, most will naturally think it's fake. At the same time, even if the design of the chinese coin looks genuine, the problem is that these coins actually are pretty shiny, like new. Ancient chinese coins are "damaged" in some ways. They don't look like new or shiny at all. In any case, people will just think these are replicas.

What I'm trying to say is that it's probably not a problem. Chinese people don't know for sure which ones are fake, which ones are real. Even if they think you're using fake coins, that doesn't mean they think they are gaffed.

For me, the main problem lies with using foreign coins rather than local coins.
mh1001
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By the way, if someone can list all of the designs of gaffed chinese coins available, I would be interested.
tonsofquestions
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As far as I can tell, almost every gaff manufacturer has their own favorites.

Are you looking for a list, or pictures to go with them? You can get a pretty good approximation here:
http://www.penguinmagic.com/s/chinese+coin

There's the one from Royal Magic (with a dragon)
The ones from Tango, Johnson and Sasco look similar, but (I think) are slightly different.
There's the Luohanqian set, as mentioned several times in this thread.
Schoolcraft seems to mostly use other coins with a hole (African ones, rather than Chinese), and Lassen uses those, too, though sometimes has his own type. (Like the Miracle Enjoyment set, though I think those might be real?)
Roy Kueppers has his own style, too, as does Joe Mogar.

There are some older ones that are pseudo-Chinese - https://www.martinsmagic.com/allmagic/mo......rehouse/ look more like washers with some lettering etched on them, but I think that's the image they're trying to evoke, though it's not very effective.

You didn't ask it, but there are also some that are supposed to be "Japanese", like this one:
https://www.seomagic-usa.com/catalog/pro......s_id/335
John Jurney also has his style that he's made for the Coin Coalition, which also pretends to be Japanese, not Chinese.

The only other kind around I can think of are the st****rs from various sets of Johnny Wong, (e.g. the DFSTC), and that's even mor eof a stretch, in my mind.
mh1001
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Thanks for the references. I'm actually using Luohanqian coins (mainly for CCC routine). The shells are nice, and not too expensive. Only issue is that they don't look old enough. The coins I got from the Charming Chinese Challenge product (at Vanishing Inc) look very old, although too thin and there is a dragon on the back, and it's the kind of design I'm looking for. The Luohanqian coin looks too perfect and excessively beautiful (it has so many details).

Anyway, I think it's mainly a matter of taste. As soon as you can let people check it's not a gaffed coin, I don't think the design makes a huge difference (although, like I said, it's better to have a coin looking old and not having a dragon engraved on the back).
tonsofquestions
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I'm not sure what all this pushback against dragons is. There are absolutely old coins that have dragons on them:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collected-Old-ch......jqVZBLNJ

If you're willing to turn to coins not made by magic companies (sides may not be the same as other coins), there are lots of other choices. The super thin ones are usually marketed as "Feng Shui" coins, like these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LOT-OF-20-LARGE-......NRdX6BeM
Which, incidentally, also have dragons on the back. They're probably quite similar to your CCC coins.

I agree it's absolutely about preference. Which style you like, and think fits best with your other coins. Most spectators don't know about/consider gaffed coins, unless it's something obvious like a jumbo/mini. Otherwise, it's just something you're using. Same thing with silver vs clad coins. It's all in the mind of the magician.
Bill Hegbli
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That has always been a problem with the magic manufactures, there is not consistency with the coins to match sets with gimmicked coins.

Johnson Products changed their Chinese coin design years ago, and I was really stuck then. All these different coins make it difficult to ring in gaffs, and combine them into a flowing routine.

Such is life in coin magic. Smile
inigmntoya
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Quote:
On May 4, 2017, tonsofquestions wrote:
Lassen uses those, too, though sometimes has his own type. (Like the Miracle Enjoyment set, though I think those might be real?)


The Miracle Enjoyment coins are his own design that he has custom minted:
http://toddlassen.com/mec.htm
tonsofquestions
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So they are. I hadn't read that in a while, so had forgotten. They're also very similar to a number of real coins I've seen, though subtly different (round holes, mirror finish, etc) as he mentions, and I see when I take a closer look.

Which brings me back to my "Every manufacturer has their own custom one" claim. Smile
martonikus
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Orient Express (Mark Mason) and Chinese Coin Vision (Joker Magic) are both very nice sets with good durability. The difference is in the colors of the coins (black/red/blue for Orient Express or black/red/white for Chinese Coin Vision) and the included routine. Either routine can be done with either set. Both sets are manufactured such that you can do a regular C/S/B routine, or you can use a property of these sets that is not found in a normal C/S/B set to do a bit more (for which instructions are included with Chinese Coin Vision, but not with Orient Express).

If you are looking for a nice C/S/B set using real coins, Roy Kueppers offers them in several types and sizes, here: http://www.roykueppers.com/nonlockingcoins.html

His "antique" Chinese coins look great and are suitable for many uses.

Whichever way you go, I suggest learning one or two tricks with regular coins and using those to end your routine. A good example is "Triple Steal" from Derek Dingle, but there are many others. One of them is included with "Chinese Coin Vision".
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