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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Disappointed.. need advice. (18 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Andy Young
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Anytime you read a book it can be magic.
danaruns
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Quote:
On Apr 12, 2017, Dick Oslund wrote:
You should be aware (being new to "magic") that:

Dana, in her enthusiasm, uses terms rather loosely.

Magic does not come, "by the ton". Magic only happens in the mind(s) of the spectator(s). The PERFORMER and his/her PRESENTATION are what make that magic happen.


Always with the pedantry. I think my meaning was clear. But I admire your zeal for insisting that everyone use words exactly as you do.

Quote:
Mark Wilson is not a "new face" in the magic business. My very good friend, Bev Bergeron, was REBO the clown on the "Magic Circus" a "few" years ago.


i don't know if you think you're referring to me still, but I never said Mark was a "new face." Indeed, Mark's 88th birthday was yesterday. Mine is this week, and we are celebrating them together along with Nani and their son, Greg, who are also Aries. I have no idea how you got the idea that I said Mark was a "new face." Or were you referring to someone else? If so, it was very unclear, and for someone with such devotion to accuracy I'm surprised.

Quote:
My friend, Tom Ogden, opened the second half, and, did a fine job. Mark and Nani followed and did a great job to close the show.


Ah, so you know Tom. Tom just proofread an article of mine before publication. We probably have many friends and acquaintances in common.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
Dick Oslund
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@Danaruns, (not the OP of this thread).

Should I be offended because you don't like the way I write? If you don't like what I say, I suggest that you don't read it.

I was writing for a father whose son is just starting.

Granted, it's a "party-line", but, no one is forcing you to listen in.

My note about Mark Wilson was in a separate paragraph. The fact that you misread what I wrote, is not my fault!

Frankly, I don't really care if you wrote an article, or not.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
danaruns
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2017, Dick Oslund wrote:
@Danaruns, (not the OP of this thread).

Should I be offended because you don't like the way I write? If you don't like what I say, I suggest that you don't read it.

I was writing for a father whose son is just starting.

Granted, it's a "party-line", but, no one is forcing you to listen in.

My note about Mark Wilson was in a separate paragraph. The fact that you misread what I wrote, is not my fault!

Frankly, I don't really care if you wrote an article, or not.


Dick, you go ahead and say anything you want. You're old, you've earned it.

Carry on.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
Dick Oslund
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Thank you! Thank you! for your kind permission!

I'm far from the "world's greatest magician", (here comes the "but":) But, I have learned from 70
years experience, performing for money, coast to coast, and border to border, a few "things" about
the "business".

So, as long as my brain, and fingers continue to function, I plan to continue to share what I have
learned. I'm fully aware that knowledge and wisdom are separate things.

I've had the opportunity, to mentor a dozen or so, young men in the past 50 years. Several of them,
like the late Doug Henning, and Bob McAllister, became fairly well known. Others are full time in the
club date field. One has died, quite young, after several years as a full time pro'. I am currently
working with one more lad of 16. He is very intelligent, exceptionally curious, very courteous, and
he is showing fine progress.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
davidpaul$
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Dick, you go ahead and say anything you want. You're old, you've earned it.

Carry on. [/quote Danaruns)
It saddens me when one belittes another regarding age. We are all headed in that direction. Time goes by way too fast.
One day it will be our turn sooner than we think. Let's respect each other. Life is too short.
Group HUG. Smile
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Dick Oslund
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My sincere thanks, David, for your thoughts.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Rolyan
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Quote:
On Apr 15, 2017, davidpaul$ wrote:
Dick, you go ahead and say anything you want. You're old, you've earned it.

Carry on. [/quote Danaruns)
It saddens me when one belittes another regarding age. We are all headed in that direction. Time goes by way too fast.
One day it will be our turn sooner than we think. Let's respect each other. Life is too short.
Group HUG. Smile

Respect works both ways remember. It saddens me to see some of the responses on here from people who should a) know better and b) be able to rise above it. I'm always a little amused by those who appear so ready to take offence, and the threads quickly degenerate into a debate about how no one must question anything the masters say, or offer a differing opinion, or even dare to offer advice. In the meantime, the original poster (often a beginner seeking help) is left to struggle alone, while the big boys battle it out to sit at the head of the table.

I for one am more interested in how the intial problem was resolved, rather than witness these constant battles for approval and recognition. So lets have respect on ALL sides before its too late. Remember, we say "goodbye" all the time, but we never know which one is the last.
Dick Oslund
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Friend Rolyan and, anyone else: I appreciate David's and your comments. The person to whom I was responding, originally, wrote a very nasty PM, about 2 months ago. I deleted it. That person continues to rant.

I even made it a point to agree with that person, in a post.

That person continues to make snide comments. I responded, and thanked the person for the permission to "...say anything you want. You're old. You've earned it..."
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
bbarefoot
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Back to lpmorgens post. It sounds like you have the advice and have taken the steps you need to rectify the issue. So, this information is only if you end up stuck with the box. It looks like, from the pictures, that it could be easily repaired with just a little elbow grease and very little cost (paint, sandpaper, glue, bondo, new trunk drawbolt and hinges).

I don't know if you are a DIYer, but if you are, you probably have some of those things hanging around already. If you are not the DIYer type, maybe try to find a local magic club or magician. Someone there likely has experience building and fixing their props, and would be willing to provide advice and maybe help your son repair the wringer. I am sure many here will agree, being able to repair props is a great skill to have, especially for a 14 year old starting out.

All the best!

Brad
~Hal~
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No. YOU carry on, Dana. You are YOUNG~ And YOU need it!

Why? Because looking back on your own foolishness, in retrospect, is the ONLY WAY that you will EVER be as wise as Dick is. When YOU are 84, you may just learn a thing or two by looking back on the silly person your younger self was!~ OR, you will do as many fools do, and stay fools forever.

The choice is yours.
Dick Oslund
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@: ~Hal~

Thank you for your very thoughtful comments!

Dick
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Russo
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Hi Dick - saw you mentioned Bev- He worked for me in So.Calif. and now lives 20 min. from me in central Fl. He had me join WDW (not entertainment though - to iffy )- though I don't see him often - My P/T job is at a LIbrary (15 years) there a lot of great Magic Books in the "J" section -many ez to make - as Idid in the 40's-- card board - etc - best to all-- on line till 1230 pm back on Mon. 10 Am est. Blessing to all Best of all to ALL Ralph(russo)Rousseau
danaruns
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Quote:
On Apr 26, 2017, ~Hal~ wrote:
No. YOU carry on, Dana. You are YOUNG~ And YOU need it!

Why? Because looking back on your own foolishness, in retrospect, is the ONLY WAY that you will EVER be as wise as Dick is. When YOU are 84, you may just learn a thing or two by looking back on the silly person your younger self was!~ OR, you will do as many fools do, and stay fools forever.

The choice is yours.


Dick, is that you? LOL! Smile One post and you sound a great deal like Dick.

And by the way, aren't you belittling me for my age? Hmmmm...pot, meet kettle! Lol!

You do realize that I was minding my own business in this thread until Dick went out of his way to snark about me and criticize me with his pedantic commentary. Just minding my own business, trying to be helpful to the OP when Dick came out of nowhere with his pedantic garbage. Dick likes to choose people to pick on. I often put up with it silently. Occasionally, I answer back. Dick defends his pedantic commentary by pointing to his age, the 1940s and the length of his career, so he makes it fair game. He comes to lecture people, often quite critically, and often trotting out the same tired criticisms of common usage of common terms (e.g., "You can't buy a magic trick!"). It is because of his age that I was not more critical and harsh in response to him. I was saying that I was choosing not to engage with him, but to let his comments go unanswered. One rule Dick can count on is that if he leaves me alone, I will leave him alone.

I have magician friends who are older than Dick, and they are much better and kinder human beings, and much more accomplished magicians, and they don't hang out in the newbie forum pontificating, giving speeches, criticizing and attacking others. He doesn't deserve respect for his tired snarks and criticisms, but sometimes a pass just for his age, which he trots out as authority.

I'm now done with this. Criticize me all you want. But it's a diversion from the thread subject and doesn't help anyone so I won't respond again.

And thanks for calling me young! Smile
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
davidpaul$
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Smile Smile

I think you both have allot to offer and to educate/enlighten those less experienced.
We are on the same team. Let's use our passion and talents to make people smile and feel like kids again.
Magic is a gift that releases wonder. Smile
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
ScottMN
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I'm always disappointed when some seem to belittle others, and act as though the way they learned/perform is the only correct way. Our art has so many forms - while I have so much respect for the classical approach (and respect for the founders and those who have paved the way and laid the "academic" foundation for today), that doesn't mean that all other methods/approaches/terminologies are invalid. I think I learn something new everytime I'm online here - from those with 1,000's of posts and those who are brand new to this...
~Hal~
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Quote:
On Apr 27, 2017, danaruns wrote:
Dick, is that you? LOL! Smile One post and you sound a great deal like Dick.

And by the way, aren't you belittling me for my age? Hmmmm...pot, meet kettle! Lol!


Hmm. This seems like a somewhat cryptic question. It took a bit of deciphering to understand. By saying "Dick, is that you?", you would clearly be talking to Dick. But by saying "One post and you sound a great deal like Dick.", you would also be referring to me. And the third line, "And by the way, aren't you belittling me for my age? Hmmmm...pot, meet kettle! Lol!", would ONLY MAKE ANY SENSE, if you were referring to both of us, as a single person! Because, you were responding to ME~ Yet, it would only make sense for me to be a kettle, or pot, if I had been here before, as Dick.

So, in short, you have assumed that because I have one post, and decided to defend Mr. Oslund, that I AM Mr. Oslund. Which, seems rather impolite. But never mind that. Just keep in mind, for future reference, that assuming something is a good way to look like the first three letters of the word. LOL! Smile

So, to answer your question, no, I am not Dick Oslund. BUT~ I agree with you, that we do indeed write very similarly! In your defense, if Dick really did decide to hatch a nefarious scheme to create an alter-ego at the magic Café, it may have looked somewhat like me.

Now~ To everybody on dis here party wagon...

First off, Dick Oslund absolutely does NOT, pick on people. Dick tries to help people. I will admit, that he can sometimes SEEM a bit "Snarky", but, is not. This is due to the fact that the internet, this world of text, is a place where you cannot actually tell what emotions are behind the scripts.

Pedantic??? Heqq yeah!!! Here is the definition of a Pedant; (pedantic, being of or like a pedant)

"A person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning."

To you Dana, I sat SPOT ON! That is definitely Dick Oslund. What is wrong with being pedantic? In all other professions, a teacher MUST BE PEDANTIC AT ALL TIMES. In music, you do not get to call a major chord a diminished one. In the medical profession, if you were to call a homeopathic a drug, you would fail the test miserably. WHY, is it such a problem when someone enforces PROPER TERMINOLOGY in Magic? Its not. Only dabblers, and people who do not care about the art would find fault in it. Maybe it is the people like this, who feel like Dick is "picking on me" are why magic is not in the top brackets of show business, and hardly considered an art anywhere.

So, when Dick commented on you improper use of Magic definitions, he was not picking on you. He was HELPING THE OP. If he had said nothing, the OP would naturally assume that it does not matter how you use the terms and expressions. Which, if they ever want to get really serious about magic, would simply not do.

Now, here is a question many people may pose; Who is to say that Dick is right in his classification of Magic Terminology? Who is to say that what he says goes? No one. But Dicks system makes sense, to almost every pro and serious magician I have met. Just like how Fitzkee classified the 19 basic effects. It may not be 100% correct, but until an alternate system that makes sense is devised, it will be foremost in the field. So, unless YOU have an alternate system for magic terminology, that you would like to share, you cannot say anything against Dick being a stickler for proper terms and definitions.

As for you friends who are older than Dick, and more accomplished... I would love to hear about them. But, they are somewhat irrelevant. Because they have nothing to do with you. YOU, are neither more experienced, accomplished, or wiser, than Dick. I have read "The Road Scholar" cover to cover, and talked to MANY people across the united states, who know Dick, knew Dick, have seen Dick, and are fans of Dick. (by the way, Dick, Nathan Colwell, a young man who works behind the counter at Magic Inc., says that your misers dream is the best he has ever seen, and, looks forward to learning it!) One thing that pretty much everyone who knows a thing or two about Dick agrees on, is that it is VERY likely, that he has performed more magic for more people live than any other magician alive today. Possibly in history! Of course, Dick retained a little humility and decided not to include this minor achievement in the book!

As a last note, Dick does not trot out his AGE as authority. He points to his EXPERIENCE. (those 20,000 shows gave him a bit of it!). And, when I called you young, I was not pointing necessarily at your physical age. More so your age in "experience and wisdom years". Because, I am not in any place to call you young~ I am still a teenager!

But, in those wisdom and experience years, I think I may be a tad bit older!
Wizard of Oz
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So lpmorgens, did you ever get that Rabbit Wringer thing worked out?
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
Dick Oslund
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Hi Wiz...I think that the OP checked out when the diatribe began. (I didn't start it!)

There are people who are invincibly ignorant, and people who are intellectually dishonest, and fortunately, it seems that the vast majority of Café members do not belong to either of those "groups".

When I was a beginner, in the '40s, many "magicians" told me that, "You can't do sleight of hand for kids!" They were just plain ignorant, and I soon learned that.

MOST of the routines that I've done since I was a very young man, involve sleight of hand skills (plus a "whole bunch" of psychology!) I don't rely on "cans, pans, tubes, boxes, and, red velvet bags on a stick"!

While I mostly did school shows, I've had experience in just about every area of the business, and I was never at liberty.

I've mentored a dozen or so, young men, many of whom are now full time professionals, in various areas of the business.

I have nothing to apologize for! The person who "stalks" me, has IMO, a very sophomoric knowledge of magic.

After my first lecture at the Magic Castle, about 40 years ago, DAI VERNON walked up and said, "A lot of the "boys" at the Castle should have been here for this!" --

The last time I toured California, a new "word" was being used by some of the pro's. >>> "SPAM" <<< (ACRONYM FOR "Someone Posing As a Magician".

I began in a carnival "ten in one" as a teen in the mid '40s. I learned the fundamentals. Once a guy is established in outdoor show business, he is "with it". I've been with it, ever since.

I am not "anti amateurs". I just don't have much use for those who call themselves magicians, but, are just guys/girls who know how some tricks are done!
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Wizard of Oz
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I was honestly just trying to get this post back on track, as I love Dick Oslund's knowledgeable posts, and danaruns' knowledgeable posts.

I felt both were following this forum's dictum of "Magicians Helping Magicians." But somewhere along the line, the "help" thing may have become derailed.

Guys (and I use this term loosely), you are both awesome and respected contributors to this forum. I have learned a lot from both of you, and realize you both have varied backgrounds and experiences, but still appreciate that you are willing to share that knowledge with us. So please come together. Maybe PM each other and come to some kind of consensus.

Our community is small, but please realize that your posts may push even just one new magician in the right direction. But that direction may be awesome. And hopefully, make it all worthwhile.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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