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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Is it Flaming, Ignorance Or Simply The Way Of A Younger Online Generation? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mindpro
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I am currently out on the road for my annual Spring Tour and I had the good fortune of spending a couple of gigs in California this weekend with my daughter. We got a chance to hang out and she brings up a topic that we actually spent the better part of two days on and off talking about and referring back to.

She brought up the topic of a comprehension problem with the age group. She said she has noticed it with business, audiences and just people she comes in contact with in general. She started talking about how they seem to have a tendency to not comprehend something clearly and simply presented to them. Then she asked me is it a comprehension problem, and ignorance problem, a not really caring or vested problem, or is it something else more purposefully?

She accompanied this with several examples which ended up extending to almost everything we encountered from our audiences, to following instructions, to comprehending a concept, to understanding something new being explained or offered to them, to even asking our waitress a simple question at Chili's. We became quite aware of its commonality and prominence. And not just towards us, but we witnessed it equally from and between many others we observed too.

We began discussing this personally and of course it quickly shifted to this playing a role into business operations, marketing and sales.

After a great weekend of observation and discussion, I quickly return to the Café and see how common it is here as well. Why does this exist? Is it a shift in learning or acceptance? Is it in intelligence or comprehension thing? Is it a more cavalier or less caring thing? Is it just someone's personal attempt to be create disruption?

I see it here in posts all the time. Not wanting to derail others threads, so I started this one, but people seem to hear and perceive things that are both different that being said or expressed or completely taken entirely and completely out of context. Here it has often been attributed to online flaming or personal agenda, which make it dismissable and easily written off, but I am beginning to think it is something much more and intentional.

I have many younger guys and gals I work with in a variety of capacities, and I do not see this as a generational thing popular with everyone. Though it seems quite common here online, as I said, we just spent the weekend seeing everywhere else.

I think understanding this could help us all in business as well since business if often about educating and sales, and if these factors become impaired because of this problem, it should be if interest to us all. if it is something more intentional, this too should be identified and called out.

Walter, a very well-respected and extremely fair member of the Café was the latest victim for what seems like no reason. Perhaps he happened to agreed with me, lol, but that still shouldn't be a real reason to be the recipient of such an attack.

There seems to be some people that almost automatically seem to recieve or perceive the exact opposite of what so many others easily comprehend or receive. Why? Is it a default setting, mentality or approach? To completely take something out of context, and then twist it to say something never said, completely different or what appears self-serving but not based on anything real or factual is quite concerning. I don't buy skepticism, as it simply is beyond something that simple.

Are they truly hearing and receiving something different than what is being stated or offered? Are they continually trying to twist things to be what they'd prefer it to be? Are they simply twisting things towards someone intentionally to make it appear they have said things they never did?

I'd be curious to others thoughts on this as it could be beneficial to us all in business and performance.
Dannydoyle
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I know why it happens here.

People tend to universalize their own experience. If they experience it everyone does.

People have been told they can't be wrong, get participation trophies for losing and hiding in " safe spaces" from ideas they don't agree with. Give them one they don't agree with and you are a bully!

People want for some reason to already know everything, ship the gain experience part and be taken as experts immediately.

Blogs have created a sense of instant expert. Many don't want to learn any more.

Yes it is a shift, but not a drastic one. This has always existed, it is simply amplified by the Internet is all. Younger generations have always wanted things faster. It is just that faster now represents something else with the Internet.

Personally I don't see it in audiences. I don't notice it live either.

If a person tries to communicate the same way online as they do live it will be a problem.

Maybe I don't notice it live because I don't have any preconceived notions about how people should or should not do things. I don't expect the waits at Chili's to be spectacular at what she does. I just accept what is happening and adjust to her. I don't expect from the world, I accept the world as it is. Note you have said nothing to contradict this. I am just putting it out there.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Is it then just the need to be heard, right or wrong? Are they that he** bent on their opinion being heard? It would explain a lot around here, lol, but still not justify. Everyone has always had an opinion, but they've never gone to such extent to have it be heard, at any cost, whether right or wrong. Is it a distorted perception issue or comprehension? Is that he way one wants to really be perceived?

"If a person tries to communicate the same way online as they do live it will be a problem." This was one of my concerns as if this is how they conduct business and operate, it could be a major liability.
Dannydoyle
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Yes they just want to be heard.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mary Mowder
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And we want to save face.

I've seen pages of text that amount to nothing more than not wanting to be embarrassed publicly (which is easy for me to understand).
A common thing here is that a person without a lot of experience will say something dumb that they assume to be true and are expecting to gain status with a lot of people agreeing.
Sometimes the good advice here is delivered with a large dose of "I'm smarter than you!" that is hard to swallow (and we wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of it either).
Some good advice is delivered in a way that is counterproductive.
The Newbie is embarrassed by being publicly humiliated and we are off to the races with pages of newbie trying to land on their feet and the righteous experienced piling on.
If we imagine what we would say to each other in person, we might communicate better.
By the way. I'm not talking about any specific thread, just a trend .

I don't think all of the mis-communication first mentioned by the O.P. is intentional.
Our brains are being re-wired by our media and the ways we interact with it.
You are not imagining it. People are not thinking as well.
I think it has to do with never being bored enough to sit and process information. There is always something to look at. This is a big change for our brains. Not sitting and thinking or daydreaming is a hugh loss to problem solving and understanding in general. Imagine the change for the worse if most of us gave up REM sleep for a while. It might not be as dire as that but the loss of cogitating time is huge.

-Mary Mowder
Dannydoyle
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I for one do communicate exactly the same person or online.

I do agree that the distance and anonymous nature of the Internet causes problems. Combined with no tone being imparted and ego issues with being permed and a plethora of other problems it is a miracle anything gets communicated via Internet.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I think Mary hits on some excellent points which was one of the reasons for the initial post. We live in a 5 second, 140 character world these days. I agree that people seem to have a comprehension or as Mary puts it a "processing" problem. Of course this is on top of the way many younger people want and even expect information to be presented to them. It is a noticeable difference from others that when wanting to learn about a particular subject will immerse themselves completely into the topic gaining as much as they can, from wherever they can, however it is presented.

I do think it's important to point out "I'm smarter than you are" is much different than someone speaking frankly and factually from experience. One may confuse one for the other but they are completely different.

I also think the issue of problem solving is somethings very significant here. There is a huge difference from creative thinking or as many refer to it as "thinking out of the box" to come up with the best possible solution, rather than just seeking an immediate answer in order to move on. I see this with many I work with and initially some can have trouble with creative thinking and processing.

Mary's identification of people thinking, believing and stating something untrue or intentionally participating even with no knowledge or experience of a topic simply in order to be heard "and are expecting to gain status with a lot of people agreeing" is extremely counterproductive to most discussions and progress.

It seems this is all a comprehending issue

One of the things that is s major key component of my business is when I educate prospective or inquiring customers and you see their lightbulb immediately go off and at the end they literally say "thank you so much for all of the information, I would have never known/thought/realized or considered that on my own." This is why we are always in the education business. This is what separates one from the pack of others. This is what establishes a vested relationship, positioning and respect. It also prevents many problems later in the transaction.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
I for one do communicate exactly the same person or online.

I do agree that the distance and anonymous nature of the Internet causes problems. Combined with no tone being imparted and ego issues with being permed and a plethora of other problems it is a miracle anything gets communicated via Internet.


Not permed. Being corrected is what was meant ironically enough.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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One thing to remember about a forum like this is lots of people are just throwing ideas out. In a theatrical show, it could be said that the "industry standard" is to have a red curtain. This is true.
But on an online forum you can say you can have any color curtain you want! This is also true.
Another commenter could say "I have seen theaters with Blue, Purple, Gold, Green, and Black Curtains." This is also true.

The point? Everyone is right, no one is wrong. We are just throwing out ideas and discussing them.

To me.. the best use of this section of the Café' is when we share our experiences. That's the best education is real life experience.

I can already predict that I will be scolded for "not understanding" the initial post. Smile
charliecheckers
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Understanding changes in the way we process information and interact with one another is definitely important for this type of discussion as well as business communications. I think much of what Mary shared is at the heart of the challenges. The one thing I would add though, is that misconceptions of the value of information shared is by no means limited to newer performers or even posters. Scope has a lot to do with it as well. One can be perceived as an expert on a topic in their geographical location and then carry that persona to the internet not aware of the accomplishments and expertise of those they find themselves interacting with. This happens all the time when individuals move outside of their smaller surrounding in all walks of life, but occurs even more often now, due to the fact that interactions are virtual.
Dannydoyle
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Yea the idea of just throwing it ideas and thru all have the same merit is not good. Not all ideas are created equal. Not all experience is relevant.

That is the worst thing that had happened with the Internet.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mary Mowder
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Really, that is the worst thing that has happened with the internet!? LOL

-Mary
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2017, thomasR wrote:
One thing to remember about a forum like this is lots of people are just throwing ideas out. In a theatrical show, it could be said that the "industry standard" is to have a red curtain. This is true.
But on an online forum you can say you can have any color curtain you want! This is also true.
Another commenter could say "I have seen theaters with Blue, Purple, Gold, Green, and Black Curtains." This is also true.

The point? Everyone is right, no one is wrong. We are just throwing out ideas and discussing them.

To me.. the best use of this section of the Café' is when we share our experiences. That's the best education is real life experience.

I can already predict that I will be scolded for "not understanding" the initial post. Smile



Are you telling me that more than one answer can be right? How dare you question the more experienced experts? LOL

I agree with what you said, yes there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Smile

I’ve owned and managed many, many businesses over my lifetime and I can’t remember a single time that all the competitors ran their business the exact same way I did. Magic is no different, there is no SET WAY things MUST be done. Yes it is true that some ways may work better, but if the shoe doesn’t fit, you can’t wear it no matter how hard you try and force it on. You must find something that fits YOU. A good business person will want to look at many ideas. They will welcome all opinions.

As for as on here, I blame much of the confusion on the constant ramblings about all the bad magicians out there. Many think this includes them too and will be labeled as such if they do post. That’s what happens when you mix in so much negativity with what could be a positive thing. The negative will always stand out above the rest and completely destroy what was actually said. Outsiders are not about to jump in a discussion where others are being bad mouthed for simply posting their own opinion.

For the record I personally don’t see us having any ‘bad’ magicians posting on here. The ‘others’ that is so often talked about, even when it is just for an example, should never be dragged into the conversations and we would have a wonderful place here.

Just my thoughts,

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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thomasR
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea the idea of just throwing it ideas and thru all have the same merit is not good. Not all ideas are created equal. Not all experience is relevant.

That is the worst thing that had happened with the Internet.


Why do you not think that all experience is relevant?
Dannydoyle
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Because it simply isn't.

For example we see it here all the time. Someone doing kids shows who thinks that those techniques directly translate to corporate work. Or the armchair guys here who haven't even done a show in this century are the world's foremost authority on anything.

Working and making money are a very serious business and you can't just know it without doing it.

All the sarcastic remarks from the armchair crowd don't change it one bit.

So while all experience that is directly related IS relevant, ones experience fishing for trout might not translate well to booking high end corporate events.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Which brings us to the question: What’s more important: Qualifications or Experience?

If you want to be a professional like a doctor, lawyer, or something like a business consultant, qualifications
are just as every bit important as the amount of experience you have.

Experience is good but if you’re not qualified in ways outside your own experience, you may not be the
very best for the job.


Never let your experience tie you down. Smile

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Yes I agree that most oeople with no experience believe that claptrap.

Fact is without qualifications you will get very little experience.

It is those without either one who ate really dangerous when they give advice.

And qualifications with no experience is useless.

Plus nobody but you seems to think it is one or the other. Just how does one become a doctor with no qualifications anyhow?

I know you are desperate to have experience mean nothing but it doesn't work that way.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Read it again Danny. I didn’t say you didn’t’ need experience to be qualified.
I said, the most qualified will usually get the job.

And no, being qualified is not always the same as having a lot of experience.
I know you don't believe that but that doesn't make it so.


Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Experience becomes PART OF your qualifications. But that only applies when you do the job.

But since again here we are talking about doing shows I guess your point as usual is meaningless.

But thank you for illustrating mindpros point so very well.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny,

What kind of shows are we talking about doing here?

What was mindpro's point, that a different point of view wasn't welcome here?

Or are you just proving my point about attacking others for no reason?

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
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