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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Is it Flaming, Ignorance Or Simply The Way Of A Younger Online Generation? (6 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Amazing you are part of this discussion and don't know his original point? Seriously?

You also prove Mary's point as well Tom. Way to go.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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No I am not a part of the discussion; I’m just having to defend your constant attacks. But if you could shut your mouth for a minute maybe we could have a real discussion. But I don’t think you can do that Danny. I wonder if mindpro was talking about you with the flaming part.I bet he was.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Apr 11, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 11, 2017, thomasR wrote:
One thing to remember about a forum like this is lots of people are just throwing ideas out. In a theatrical show, it could be said that the "industry standard" is to have a red curtain. This is true.
But on an online forum you can say you can have any color curtain you want! This is also true.
Another commenter could say "I have seen theaters with Blue, Purple, Gold, Green, and Black Curtains." This is also true.

The point? Everyone is right, no one is wrong. We are just throwing out ideas and discussing them.

To me.. the best use of this section of the Café' is when we share our experiences. That's the best education is real life experience.

I can already predict that I will be scolded for "not understanding" the initial post. Smile



Are you telling me that more than one answer can be right? How dare you question the more experienced experts? LOL

I agree with what you said, yes there is more than one way to skin a cat as they say. Smile


Tom


This was your first post Tom. Sarcastic and attacking. So you are not defending anything here you are the one who is attacking.

And people who say there is more than one way to skin a cat have never tried to field dress a deer.

Your constant sarcasm and needless bickering is part of the problem.

Now you get all huffy and say shut my mouth and want to pretend you are the victim. All you got was answered in kind nothing more. You drag down EVERY thread you are part of with either useless information about things you DO NOT EVER DO or you put together little sarcastic comments to derail things.

So please stop. Seriously just please stop. It is tiresome and predictable.

If you ever do a magic show, then perhaps you can give us your experience. Until then your VERY limited experience from the 1980's has run it's course.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, I am not going to keep explaining to you how I have been involved in magic one way or the other for the past 70 years.
It’s clear you simply hate old people and get a kick out of following them around and harassing them. Check my past 100 posts
here and see who is first to respond with some smart remark. You do it 9 out of 10 times.

This thread has nothing to do with doing magic shows. It’s called “Flaming, Ignorance Or Simply The Way Of A Younger Online Generation?” So if mindpro is serious about calling out the flame throwers all he has to do is look at your record here. Many magicians over on facebook have said, and often do say that they don’t post here anymore mainly because of DannyDoyle. That is a fact, and it is sad that you have no idea why they say that. Of course you take pride in your reputation I’m sure. Danny, this thread is about how we treat others on here and I hate to say it but you are a long way from being a ‘real’ professional. A ‘real’ professional shows respect to everyone regardless of their age, experience, or opinion.

Anyway, got to run for a few days so enjoy all that so called experience you have.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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70 years and you so can't manage to be a professional? No wonder you are so crabby. (But THANK GOD you are not going to keep explaining it. It is really sad.)

And Tom it is not about age. I would call out anyone who acts like you do. Again it is very nice of you to illustrate the point of this thread so well.

Here is a question posed by Mindpro. "Is it then just the need to be heard, right or wrong? Are they that he** bent on their opinion being heard? It would explain a lot around here, lol, but still not justify. Everyone has always had an opinion, but they've never gone to such extent to have it be heard, at any cost, whether right or wrong. Is it a distorted perception issue or comprehension? Is that he way one wants to really be perceived?"

YES! You are just SO desperate to be heard right or wrong. You just want your opinion out there whether you have anything to actually contribute or not.

Mary talks about wanting to save face and attributes it to younger people. Well Tom there ya go. Not always younger people apparently because you just NEVER STOP!

So don't throw me the age bs. It is just silly. You have a VERY long history of acting like this exactly. So again please stop.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, mindpro said, "I'd be curious to others thoughts on this as it could be beneficial to us all in business and performance."

He asked for thoughts on the subject so why jump me when I give my thoughts. If you don't agree, why is it so hard to just move on?
Why are you so set on discrediting everything I say here? I didn't give out advice on doing a show, that wasn't the question, yet you come a running, like you always do, with the 'you have to experience' crap. My gosh man, get over your hate for someone posting a different opinion than yours.

Besides, as someone else has said above, sometimes there can be more than one answer to a question.

Now go ahead and have the last word with some off the wall remark that has nothing to do with the topic. It's called Flaming.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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That was a fast few days.

What he didn't invite was your sarcastic remarks in your first post.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Tim Zager
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Mindpro, I have some thoughts on your question, but want to make sure I understand what you're asking...

The observation with your daughter seemed to come from what you were seeing with the "age group" and how they comprehend things on and offline. Then you mentioned you went to the Café to see how common this phenomenom is here.

So, are you wondering if it's an "age" thing or an "online" problem, or both?

Hope that makes sense. Smile

-Z
.
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with a Digital Business Card.
Mindpro
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My initial inquiry was about why this happens/is happening. Why are there some people who do not seem to understand or comprehend things, even when clearly stated. Was it a comprehension issue, perhaps an intelligence issue, or maybe a not-caring issue?, From there it went into an age or possible generation or demographic issue/concern. Then it quickly went into a "there are certain people, that their natural default setting seems to be both not comprehending or understanding it in a way other than it was clearly offered, almost taking everything out of its intended context and twisting it to what they want to hear/see something as. Or twisting it for challenging or even malicious purposes. Not based on the facts or input offered, but on a completely different interpretation of the original information. Many others seem to receive it and understand it clearly, yet to these people, you could clearly state the sky is blue, the moon is white and the grass is green and they either don't accept it this way or seem to be looking for an alternate perception, even if clearly incorrect or opposing to the information offered.

These people usually become very confrontational, challenging and vocal and in the online world it leads to flaming and other similar type of behaviors.

Then to go a bit deeper, is those that seem to just do so (or similarly so) just to speak, whether there is knowledge or experience on the issue/topic or not, just to seem to want to be heard or to seem to challenge what exists or has been offered.

It is much more than just not wanting to accept a right from wrong, or alternate from the norm? It is a constant challenging anyone and anything that opposes their beliefs, even if offered from intelligence, experience or established and accepted perspective.

It seems most commonly seen in the 23-37 age group we were seeing, yet I am sure their is a personality type that it is common with in all ages.

I have made my career and built all of my businesses based on understanding a combination of pop culture and relating to and understanding the masses, the majority, the commonly accepted, established and popular general belief of my targets.

Then after this weekend discussion I return here, and of course in four different threads this was existing, and of course a form of it even in this thread soon followed.

As you can see the main topic can go off in several directions very easily. 3-4 people can quickly take the original information offered into an entirely different direction, here online derailing the original topic or direction, and yet with certain people it seems to become an intentional direction of operation and execution. I see it every week here via PMs and emails that many want to contribute to posts and threads but do so via PM as not to be subjected to such ridicule, chastising and perspective. It sadly gets to a point when someone with experience, in this thread for example Danny Doyle, is constantly challenged by someone without the same level of experience (at least in the topic being offered). People come to this forum, Tricky Business, to learn,to seek answers, assistance and direction. You learn from others with experience. Here you also learn to separate fact and experience from opinion. In the many PMs I receive it is recognized that (in this case) Danny has longtime experience in many areas of which we discuss here, yet many will not publicly want to agree with him for fear of being chastised by others as they do to him. So at this point participation and progress are interrupted for the point of not wanting to participate in being subject to such content.

I understand there are many forums here where opinion is what is being called for. It's about bantering around ideas and possibilities, how to do this what accessory or gizmo do you use or do you feel works best for this or that. They are seeking the opinions of others. When I was first invited to participate here it was because of the reason that members come here for advice, sometimes crucial to their advancement and operational success, based on experience. It was the sole reason I was asked to be here based on my knowledge and experience in so many areas of live entertainment business. It was clearly stated and offered and I clearly understood what was expected.

How can some people over and over again, continue to see things not as intended, not as the masses or the rest of the a community, society and general population? It gets to s point where progress stops because of the counter-perception and challenging nature and perspectives takes over and becomes non-productive to those with genuine interest.

There are many layers to it I guess. We were initially seeing it as more of a possible generational thing, but it appears there are many that just constantly like to challenge experience or perhaps authority. Is it just non-acceptance of established experience. Is it believing they can find a "better way" or "opposing way?" Is it challenging those that have progressed beyond themselves? Is it that these people want to believe everyone are the same and all at the same status or level, and fail to recognize different levels of experience and status exist? Or is it just as simply as someone wanting or needing to be heard with an opinion, experienced or not, right or wrong or not?

So to Tim, yes it was first considering was it an age, generation or demographic thing (which could be quite utilized in business operations)? Or is it more prominent as an online thing, or both? There is a relation between the two as well, it appears, as at some point as well as the online aspect directly is part of the world and culture of of the generational aspect.
Robb
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My big question that I always wonder about: why do super successful, experienced performers and businessmen waste their time here? I'm not being argumentative, I just don't get it. I'm here because I'm still building a career and I find an occasional good idea here, but once I'm in full gear, I cannot imagine I'll waste much time checking into Café threads. So... why? Especially seeing how frustrating it is for them as indicated by the essays they write. Just doesn't make sense to me.
Dannydoyle
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So the idea of giving back does not occur to you? Take what you need and then the next generation can fend for themselves?

This is a valid position to take, and I don't fault you for it if it is true. But can't that be a reason?

I NEVER paid for a magic lesson in my life. EVERYTHING I have been taught is mentorship. Is that bad to want to provide that as well?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2017, Robb wrote:
My big question that I always wonder about: why do super successful, experienced performers and businessmen waste their time here? I'm not being argumentative, I just don't get it. I'm here because I'm still building a career and I find an occasional good idea here, but once I'm in full gear, I cannot imagine I'll waste much time checking into Café threads. So... why? Especially seeing how frustrating it is for them as indicated by the essays they write. Just doesn't make sense to me.



Because you are here for one thing, for yourself. Some of us are not here for ourselves, but rather for the art and industry. I've told my story many times. When I was 12 years old I went on a quest for any information I could find on the business of entertainment. It didn't exist then at all. Literally, nothing. Not a spec of it. Even the IRS didn't consider it a legitimate profession.

I was fortunate enough to be taken under the wings by some of the greats in American show business, both star performers, the top names in the business, and their equivilent in many behind the scenes capacities - producers, directors, agents, promoters, managers, etc. from Sinatra to top names of the days.

Many offered to mentor me based on the commitment that when I was in the position that I would never forget my thirst, drive and quest for this knowledge that was closely guarded at the time. I made the promise that I would share with others who wanted or needed this information. This is how an art and industry succeeds and progresses. It is for this reason that I am part of now 14 entertainment forums and my own line of professional resources for over 30 years now from which I share this industry insight, knowledge and experience.

It is much bigger than any one of us, it is about the industry and the business of entertainment.

Sorry this is hard for you to understand. Once you approach what we do from an industry perspective rather than your own perspective, it becomes and entirely different game and levels are available to you you will never experience on your own.
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2017, Robb wrote:
My big question that I always wonder about: why do super successful, experienced performers and businessmen waste their time here? I'm not being argumentative, I just don't get it. I'm here because I'm still building a career and I find an occasional good idea here, but once I'm in full gear, I cannot imagine I'll waste much time checking into Café threads. So... why? Especially seeing how frustrating it is for them as indicated by the essays they write. Just doesn't make sense to me.


Love this post in so many ways.
TomBoleware
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Robb,

Most super successful, experienced performers don’t post much here anymore.
Those that talk a lot are ‘internet’ magicians.

For some it’s sort of like an old folk’s home. Ain’t got nothing else to
do so we go down to the Café. Smile

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Robb
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Danny, MindPro, okay, I get that... you want to give back and share your knowledge. YET you are continually frustrated in that endeavor on this site. MindPro and I are members of another forum and there the conversations are much more productive. I truly appreciate the feedback and information I receive on that site. But why cast pearls before swine? That does seem to be your feelings about the Café. I mean, I don't see Copperfield here or Maven or even many of the bigger "magician's magicians". Also, do you both sell products or services for magicians and mentalists? If so, excuse me for thinking that perhaps your motives are not entirely altruistic.
Dannydoyle
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Never sold a single thing to a magician. I have no plans of selling anything.

This is a good point you make though on many levels.

I do not feel at all as is it is "pearls before swine" though.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2017, Robb wrote:
My big question that I always wonder about: why do super successful, experienced performers and businessmen waste their time here?


We are so fortunate that those with such experience offer to discuss and share their perspectives. Reading Danny's stories about his time at Magic Inc. and Schulien's is interesting and inspiring. He mentions he had mentors. Of course not every successful performer back then chose to mentor him and share trade secrets and so forth. That is probably why it was so special to receive attention from those who were willing. The same is true today. One day I will be sharing the story of my beginnings and how I learned from talent all over the world when such a thing was first possible through what was called social media and a forum called The Magic Café. I can imagine some will be uninterested, challenging and not accepting of what I will be sharing. This will not deter me, as I will always remember the exciting time in my life I am currently experiencing. I will not forget that many here who offered advice, direction and products that took my shows to new levels. I will not forget the relationships I fostered that extended beyond just participating here.
Dannydoyle
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I should also offer that while I don't sell things it in no way means those who do are wrong.

There was a thread here recently about Lou's course. While I do not have it the purchaser is raving about how great the attention he received was and had been spurred to action and is moving forward.

Just because he sells it in no way means he does not have positive motives. He chooses to put his knowledge together for sale. It is thusly made available to others it normally might not be.

Purchasers seem happy. So in the end I would never question his motives. He seems like an upstanding dude and his students speak for him. So I sort of disagree with that notion.

Others here do it as well. Yes there are those whose motives I might question. But the simple act of selling is certainly not a reason for those questions. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

And I mentioned Lou ONLY because there was that recent thread. I am not paid by Lou. I also am sorry if I left others out. Please do not take that to mean I think poorly of anyone. Please do not be angry with me. And PLEASE no angry PMs.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Cafécheckers,

When you get older and start helping others, please remember this favorite quote of mine by Maya Angelou.
It pretty much hits the nail on the head about how people will remember you.

“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never
forget how you made them feel.”


Share all you want, but unless the listener likes and trusts you, you will be just be peeing in the wind.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Apr 14, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Cafécheckers,
Share all you want, but unless the listener likes and trusts you, you will be just be peeing in the wind.
Tom

First, let me say that I hope I am fortunate enough to be in such a position.
Interestingly, one of the important things I learned from my brother with respect to participating here is to pay no attention whether or not we like or agree with other participants. Of coarse, we only take advice we trust to be helpful - but it comes from any and all sides. We have taken free advice - and purchased items from you and many others - never once giving a second thought as to if we liked the "seller" or not. I have not really begun to consider the manner in which I will share or offer information yet, as that would be rather presumptuous of me, but let me say that sharing in a manner that requires the recipient to like and trust me, may be a bit restrictive.
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