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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ If you want to work corporate... (24 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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WDavis
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Throw your business card away.

Let me explain why.
1. Your card has your picture on it
2. It lists all the services you do.
3. You treat your card like a sales tool

These are signs you are amateur or a consumer market performer. I have a growing suspicion many magicians copied real estate agents on their cards.

Think about this for a moment before you jump down my throat. Business buyers are more sophisticated and if they have your card it's because you were referred or you have a relationship with them. B2b entertainment services is relationship driven, not consumer volume driven. And if you want to work in that market you need to look like you belong.
You don't know how many times I got business cards from people trying to push me their service or product that ended up in the trash can. A bad business card is toxic for b2b success, it can really cheapen an image.

So in the end get a card that you expect a professional would give you, because they are expecting you to be a professional too.

Don't even get me started on why blogs, twitter, Facebook, social media is a waste of time too.
Dannydoyle
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I'm just going to stand back and let you take this bullet fussilad.

While your at it you might add always being "on" and free work to your list.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Yeah, this will be interesting to see how this plays out. I will say, two of the most important and significant topics are presented here in the above post, that are not often discussed - the true definition of being a "professional" and the very crucial understanding of consumer vs. professional markets and their differences. This is a topic that really hits home for me. This is exciting.
TomBoleware
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Ok I will fire the first shot.Smile Iím sure Danny and Mindpro will quickly remind you that I have zero experience so please take this anyway you want.

Wdavis, Thanks for posting. Now please donít take this as a slam, just some more thoughts to consider. I do agree with most of what was said, but here are some thoughts to ponder.

First, Corporations come in all shapes and sizes. Many of the smaller ones may be owned by the not so sophisticated person (like myself ) Also many business people can spot a mentalist a mile away trying to hide the fact that he too is just another magician, so that doesnít help as much as some think.

Next, you right that business is relationship driven. The key is to have the Ďrightí relationship and if you do that, you can promise that you will leave your rabbit at home. Same thing if you are being Ďreferredí, there someone is vouching for you, no worries there.

I do agree with the business card, someone sitting at a desk looking at it and knowing nothing about you, it can tell a different story. Best to not have one, or at least not one trying to sell you.

With blogs, twitter, or Facebook, it depends on how you use it. First place references are checked is facebook, so if you use it right, it will close the deal for you. If you donít have a facebook and the person checking does, they may see that as a problem.

Wdavis, donít you have a blog? How to you hide it from everyone? Also posts you make on here can be seen by the public.
Again not a slam just some thoughts. Mindpro claims that is why he doesn't use his name on here. I don't buy that because it hurts
his book sales and coaching business on here. But the idea does sound good.

Anyways,
Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Donald Dunphy
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Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
WDavis
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Tom,

Thank you for firing the shot. Yes companies come in different shapes and sizes, but In the business world the segmentation for a "corporate market" is done by market capitalization or revenue size.

So a s-corp or Llc that does up to $5 million isn't considered corporate they are flagged as a small business. Middle market is ranges 5-50 million, commercial is 50-500 and corporate is 500+.million. Though lately commercial and corporate have been blending due to M&A shrinking the top. Granted there is a little wiggle room for dollar cut offs between segmentations but this is a general rule of thumb. So, the fact someone incorporates is irrelevant. in my view, saying you work a corporate market implies your dealing within the commercial and corporate segmentation I've outlined above, but if during the conversation it's demonstrated they are just working the small business segment, it's the same as the magician calling herself a mentalist.

My opinion is blogs, SEO, and websites are secondary and they validate you but don't sell you. All the volume driven to your website is useless if they are not the right buyer for your service. Social media sites are more a distraction than a significant revenue channel, corporate buyers don't surf Facebook for an entertainer. They start with their Rolodex then go to an agency. They have a level of expectation and marks to hit. Hiring g you reflects that and Facebook isn't the marketplace for corporate, it is the marketplace for consumers.

Yes I have a blog, on mentaltek, yes I could be better at using it. But the truth is my segmentation,targeting, and positioning are completely distinct for my mentalism performing, mentalist/magician retail, and my consulting firm. I worked very hard to separate the three as each are focused on separate markets with seperate value propositions. I use a stage name for performing and work thru a solely and distinct legal entity for that. Same with mentaltek and my consultancy. Fortunately, my name is so common it helps provide some google proofness. It isn't perfect but yes it helps seperate.

Thanks for posting,
Walter
WDavis
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Donald,

Thanks for your reply,

while related I wanted to seperate the threads for clarify of focus. In the other thread it used a broad brush asking if cards are still relevant and discussed both digital and tangible cards. My view is yes they are relevant,but only when used appropriately. Additionally, I've outlined the 3 largest flaws in most business card designs from performers. Finanlly, the card doesn't matter if its digital or tangible when used and designed appropriately.

One major reason to remove the clutter from the card is now the card capture software for phones synching with databases don't work very well when trying to identify your contact information.

Walter
Donald Dunphy
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BTW, I guess that I'm a "consumer market performer" (not an amateur), because I use business cards, postcards, brochures, giveaways to children in my audiences (with my contact info for their parents), etc., in addition to my website. It specialize in shows for children's audiences and family audiences. It's not uncommon to have people ask me for my business card (or my postcard giveaway, which also has my contact info), after seeing me perform.

Could you please define "consumer market performer" a little bit more? I don't know if I've heard that phrase before.

I know that I'm not a corporate entertainer. But I know a few. I have a sense of what services they offer, what's involved in their work, and what they get paid for their work.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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Easy. As a matter of fact you just did it.

Mommy is a consumer. AT&T is a business.

When you market to mommies it is possible a business card and all you mention is useful even necessary. When you do things business to business it is often not helpful and even detrimental. This is where experience matters.

Being in consumer markets is not bad. It is just not the same thing and when guys think it is then it is not good.

Worse yet when they pontificate and try to tell others about things they are clueless it hurts the one they are trying to "help".

Working for a small business that has a company picnic is not doing "corporate work" as so many think.

We have seen this here so many times.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WDavis
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Donald,
You bring a valid point something I left off in my last post in reply to you. This thread is addressing those that target business clients.

There is another segmentation strategy within business that is retailer, wholesaler, commercial/corporate. Here the segmentation is based on the end user of your services.

This strategy is often combined with the previous one usually to identify retailers when a company has different market footprints. And leads to some less than transparent marketing by magicians/Mentalist's. I remember a performer claiming he performed corporate and did a gig for Verizon, later it came to light he performed a Christmas party for one of the retail stores. Was what he did wrong, no, misleading to the consumer market but not wrong. Corporate buyers will channel check and he killed his chances of getting real corporate work.

Consumer markets are individual buyers for personal consumption. So you and me. We are consumers every time we shop for ourselves at the grocery store, Verizon, Walmart, etc. we are always buying retail. A consumer market performer is one that caters to consumers. So if I wanted to hire a magician, that magician is serving the consumer market.
Dannydoyle
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THAT is the point. When guys do local fetal store business and claim to have worked for the parent company it is dumb. It is so easy for them to check, and they do check. When that happens you are done.

Now the truly sad part is most don't know this even happens. They do it not to be deceptive, but out of ignorance and it can get expensive. Most don't know the difference.

It is the difference in a Ted Talk and TedX. Heck some here didn't know the difference. Guys just don't do the diligence necessity any more.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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When I helped plan variety entertainment for small company picnics, and company retreats I thought that was "working corporate shows" as well.

Then another company I work started sending me out to do lighting design for real corporate events.... The difference is huge.
TomBoleware
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Thanks Walter

Just another thought to throw out there, but do magicians even market directly to the really huge corps?
Donít most of those companies just go through a booking agency? And donít the magicians capable of doing
these type shows have managers that do the marketing work for them?

You would think that would be the case. I can't see a lot on here mailing postcards to Microsoft. Smile

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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So now your changing your tune?

You get to bigger companies differently but you still get to them.

And Don Alan didn't have a manager. Eddie Tulloch didn't and so on. So no they don't generally have managers.

Also it is quite rare for managers to do marketing in any capacity.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny,

Eddie Tullock and Don Alan worked many years ago, when we didnít have computers, facebook, etc.
Things are different today. Besides they were insiders and didnít need to break into that market.
They had very little marketing to do.

Yes if one wants to wait 30 years until you have the reputation then itís not as hard for those who qualify.
But the topic here is marketing to businesses today.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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It is possible without that 30 years experience you are of little value to the corporation.

And in reality it is not that much different Tom. Having never experienced it though you have no idea.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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So they only hire old people? Smile

As Iíve said before, experience means very little nowadays, itís more about being qualified. A corporation had much
rather have a younger good looking qualified person than a........but letís not change the subject here and try and
stay on topic this time without the flaming.


Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
WDavis
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Tom,

all technology does is speed means of communication. It doesn't replace the foundation of networking. A huge mistake in B2b is the magician meeting someone and qualifying herself by showing a trick or "being always on." B2b is relationship driven. When you network your developing a relationship not pitching immediately. To use the crude example of the young man who asks every girl to sleep with him, eventually he gets a yes, but that's not going to establish a relationship of substance and long term value. Which ties back to the business card, it's a reminder of the relationship and value you bring based on your existing relationship. So pictures and sales offerings etc aren't needed on them. Save those for your press kit. If they are interested in you they will ask for it.
Dannydoyle
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Tom every word you wrote in that last post is wrong. Business to business is about experience not looks.

Why do you continue to comment when you have no idea what you are saying?

It is about relationships, not business cards and tech or youth.

Mostly it is about keeping contacts polished.

You do not do shows much less business to business. Why continue?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Apr 13, 2017, WDavis wrote:
Tom,

all technology does is speed means of communication. It doesn't replace the foundation of networking. A huge mistake in B2b is the magician meeting someone and qualifying herself by showing a trick or "being always on." B2b is relationship driven. When you network your developing a relationship not pitching immediately. To use the crude example of the young man who asks every girl to sleep with him, eventually he gets a yes, but that's not going to establish a relationship of substance and long term value. Which ties back to the business card, it's a reminder of the relationship and value you bring based on your existing relationship. So pictures and sales offerings etc aren't needed on them. Save those for your press kit. If they are interested in you they will ask for it.


I agree.

But I will add, technology is used so much in the business world today itís important to at least try and stay up to date as much as you can in this new world of ours. Doesnít mean you need to be a computer guru but your understanding of it will most likely help, even if it is in a small way, in qualifying you.

Thanks Walter, a great topic.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ If you want to work corporate... (24 Likes)
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