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Dannydoyle
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Define what you mean by manager, and tell us exactly what he does and how much they are paid.

Please Tom I'm really anxious to learn from your vast experience in this realm.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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I know you are just waiting, Smile

They are paid very well and most are like ghost-writers, most outsiders never hear about them.
Almost like a silent partner. They’re not in it for the fame.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Not any answer at all Tom. Please answer my question. In anxious to learn.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Manager: a person responsible for controlling or administering all or part of a company or similar organization.
(Not to be confused with an agent.)

But, Danny regardless of what I say you are going to disagree and make something out of it. So why don’t you go ahead and tell us how it all works. Spare us the back and forth this time.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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No Tom in this context what is a manager. Teach me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ray Pierce
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I do consider myself in an atypical position but when I was making most of my living doing corporate events I had a manager so he handled most of the details of what I did but at that point I was going on an existing reputation for my show. I was doing a 45 minute show for corporate events and banquets. At that time the top corporate entertainer was Danny Ganz who few outside of the corporate world had ever heard of yet he was the top of the heap in that market. I was happy doing my illusion show, sometimes with custom elements I developed for the individual events. Keith Evens managed me as well as Robert Goulet, Dennis James and many others that most of you will have never heard of. At that point they were headlining the Leisure World Circuit but still very much in demand. I will say that the further up the ladder you got, the less important a business card was. The people that mattered always knew how to get to you. The top people always talk to each other. It's a smaller group as you near the top of the pyramid.

I'll readily admit that was many years ago so I don't have any insight on social media, blogging and its related marketing potential. At this point, if someone wants me, they know how to reach me.
Ray Pierce
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TomBoleware
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Thanks Ray. Yes I think you see managers more within the corporate world and yes there are a lot of important unheard of people out there. It is all about relationships, you have to have them to survive in the corporate market for sure.

Many years ago when I did my little touring illusion show doing fundraising shows I had a manager. A busy performer doesn’t have time to do it all, especially in my case where I was providing all the fundraising, promoting, ticket sales, etc, using my own phone crew. Some could say the correct word was promoter and not manager and that might be true in some cases.

I’m certainly not saying everyone should hire a manager just that they do exist and it shouldn't be ruled out. I think if the truth was known many today have managers making the important arrangements and just won’t admit it, they call’em wives. Smile

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Tom you have no clue what a manager is do you? Yet you encourage everyone to hire one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, I have no idea how YOU would describe a manager. And no where have I encouraged anybody.

I’ve already said a manager is a person responsible for controlling or administering all or part of the company details.
Of course the duties could be different with every company/person. The owner writes the rules. So yes, your manager could have a completely different job than my manager.

But that's my last response to your posts Danny. No more having to defend myself with you.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Thank God.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Apr 12, 2017, WDavis wrote:

Don't even get me started on why blogs, twitter, Facebook, social media is a waste of time too.


Except the whole part where with the right piece of content you can run a targeted ad on FB against the employees of a given company and get results.
WDavis
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Quote:
On May 13, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 12, 2017, WDavis wrote:

Don't even get me started on why blogs, twitter, Facebook, social media is a waste of time too.


Except the whole part where with the right piece of content you can run a targeted ad on FB against the employees of a given company and get results.


Corporate Economic buyers don't puruse Facebook looking for professional services, additionally, if you are targeting employees then your not working targeting the right person. Employees don't buy, They lack the authority. Let Clint Eastwood explain.

https://youtu.be/s2w9X_tHU7k

Now if we look at it from opportunity cost. Same money spent to meet corporate economic buyers vs meeting a lower level employee, my money goes to corporate economic buyers.
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On May 13, 2017, WDavis wrote:
Quote:
On May 13, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 12, 2017, WDavis wrote:

Don't even get me started on why blogs, twitter, Facebook, social media is a waste of time too.


Except the whole part where with the right piece of content you can run a targeted ad on FB against the employees of a given company and get results.


Corporate Economic buyers don't puruse Facebook looking for professional services, additionally, if you are targeting employees then your not working targeting the right person. Employees don't buy, They lack the authority. Let Clint Eastwood explain.

https://youtu.be/s2w9X_tHU7k

Now if we look at it from opportunity cost. Same money spent to meet corporate economic buyers vs meeting a lower level employee, my money goes to corporate economic buyers.



You've never executed a FB ad in this manner, have you? So you have an opinion on something you've never even tried. How can your opinion have any validity without having ever tasted it?

Going a step further on the social media world that you believe is a waste of time...in a B2B world...you can actually know the name of your customer. I, along with many others in the B2B world are actively converting using these platforms.

You're perfectly free to think social media platforms are a waste of time. But you think that because you don't understand them.
TomBoleware
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I don’t know Walter, Facebook is too huge to completely ignore it, and while the CEO himself may not be there you can bet those important people surrounding him/her are. I don’t think anybody goes there looking to purchase anything, it just happens. Much like nobody turns on the TV to watch the commercials Smile but the difference is with Facebook you can choose which commercials you want to watch. Besides the best marketing never comes across as an ad anyway, its a place to connect.


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 14, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
How can your opinion have any validity without having ever tasted it?


This extends well beyond opinions on Facebook right?

If this is the new standard that is going to be adopted there will be far fewer posts on The Magic Café.

I an all for it though.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WDavis
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Quote:
On May 14, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:

You've never executed a FB ad in this manner, have you? So you have an opinion on something you've never even tried. How can your opinion have any validity without having ever tasted it?


Robert, no I haven't.

Yes I do have an opinion on something I've never tried because I interviewed (s=75) board of directors, ceos, senior executives with buying authority if they would ever buy based on social media.

the resounding answer was NO, they wouldn't. I followed up and asked if they ever hired a professional service from social media, the response was social media was never a considering factor for the buyer. An employee may have brought a name to them from social media, but those people were never on the short list because of social media, but rather because of other relationship based factors.
Quote:
Going a step further on the social media world that you believe is a waste of time...in a B2B world...you can actually know the name of your customer.

I don't understand what you are saying here? In b2b, knowing your customers/prospects name is a fundamental requirement for relationship based business. So, how does social media add any value?

Quote:
I, along with many others in the B2B world are actively converting using these platforms.
You asked me how I could have an opinion, I would like to ask you to clarify:
What are you selling thru social media?
What are converting to and from?

Quote:
You're perfectly free to think social media platforms are a waste of time. But you think that because you don't understand them.
I understand them. They are not complicated. An analogy would be a social media user is no different than someone on a soap box in the town square yelling to the crowds their message. It's simply a question of return on investment for credibility. Social media provides very little credibility to start. It's only after strong brands are established does social media add credibility. What is more likely to occur is social media destroys credibility. I've fired and not hired people because of social media posts. I find more value from other channels comparatively
WDavis
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Quote:
On May 14, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
I don’t know Walter, Facebook is too huge to completely ignore it, and while the CEO himself may not be there you can bet those important people surrounding him/her are. I don’t think anybody goes there looking to purchase anything, it just happens. Much like nobody turns on the TV to watch the commercials Smile but the difference is with Facebook you can choose which commercials you want to watch. Besides the best marketing never comes across as an ad anyway, its a place to connect.


Tom

I'm not say ignore Facebook. I'm saying in the b2b world, decisions are not impulse buys like in the b2c. A social media effort will have little return for a professional service provider in a b2b environment.

my point is return on investment, social media is a less effective medium for entertainers in b2b. It's like fishing, know your fish habits, the environment they swim, and present your hook in a way that appeals to them. My fish, business executives with p&l authority don't swim social media and if they are in it they aren't biting, no matter the bait I use in it. Rather if I know my buyers swim in a specific waters (trade journals etc) I will put my hook there. Now my hook there is also dependent on their habits, but I found the best return from getting interviewed or quoted by others
Mindpro
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In the professional markets world there are industry-specific resources, networks and tools that are almost always utilized for conducting such businesses, and no social media is not one of them. Rarely would any professionals seek anything beyond these resources. They have been created specifically for these people, their industries and these purposes.

That is why social media is likely to never penetrate such markets because in order to do so they would have to overpower these industry resources. It is very unlikely to do that and I think FB execs understand this. They are a SOCIAL network, that is their platform and what hey do best. I would think they have little interest in penetrating established professional industry resources.

I think the entertainer interested in such markets would have time better spent learning about these industry resources and networks and trying to put their efforts into them more than social media.
Dannydoyle
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To add to Walters analogy when fishing with a lot of other boats, it spooks the fish. They go to calmer waters.

I personally prefer to fish where there are fewer boats. Your bait gets a much better opportunity to be seen.

No Tom this does not mean ignore social media. I like the way you try to apply things nobody said and then prove someone wrong.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On May 14, 2017, WDavis wrote:
Quote:
On May 14, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:

You've never executed a FB ad in this manner, have you? So you have an opinion on something you've never even tried. How can your opinion have any validity without having ever tasted it?


Robert, no I haven't.

Yes I do have an opinion on something I've never tried because I interviewed (s=75) board of directors, ceos, senior executives with buying authority if they would ever buy based on social media.

the resounding answer was NO, they wouldn't. I followed up and asked if they ever hired a professional service from social media, the response was social media was never a considering factor for the buyer. An employee may have brought a name to them from social media, but those people were never on the short list because of social media, but rather because of other relationship based factors.
Quote:
Going a step further on the social media world that you believe is a waste of time...in a B2B world...you can actually know the name of your customer.

I don't understand what you are saying here? In b2b, knowing your customers/prospects name is a fundamental requirement for relationship based business. So, how does social media add any value?

Quote:
I, along with many others in the B2B world are actively converting using these platforms.
You asked me how I could have an opinion, I would like to ask you to clarify:
What are you selling thru social media?
What are converting to and from?

Quote:
You're perfectly free to think social media platforms are a waste of time. But you think that because you don't understand them.
I understand them. They are not complicated. An analogy would be a social media user is no different than someone on a soap box in the town square yelling to the crowds their message. It's simply a question of return on investment for credibility. Social media provides very little credibility to start. It's only after strong brands are established does social media add credibility. What is more likely to occur is social media destroys credibility. I've fired and not hired people because of social media posts. I find more value from other channels comparatively



Based on your analogy, I know you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to utilizing digital marketing. A better analogy would be the guy in town square speaking directly to the people who have interest in his product. But as you said, you've never deployed a single ad in the space, so you wouldn't know this.

Your last sentence explains your entire position. "YOU" find more value from other channels. Social media is a waste of time "for YOU." And that's fine. But to dismiss it outright just shows ignorance of the abilities these platforms have.

Just to spell it out for you, of the last $200,000 or so in revenue my company has generated, a bit over $50k occurred specifically due to these platforms you call "a waste of time."

That's real. You may not believe it because you still believe Facebook is nothing more than vanity and cat videos and therefore a waste of time. That's fine.

Doesn't actually matter one way or the other to me. I just wanted to add a different perspective to this discussion for future readers. Hopefully they won't dismiss the value of these platforms so easily.
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