Hi does anyone know any good sources where I can learn about the dove tail steal? Are the pocket set up exactly the same as it would be if the bird was loaded into you jacket or vest? And how far back do you normal position your pockets in the tail, a few inches from the edge perhaps?

I do not know of any printed instructions for tail dove steals. Although,I do not own everything on the market.

I believe Peter of PA silks sells a gimmick to do a tail steal. It is called the hip clip steal, or something to that matter. I think he teaches how to use it in one of his dove videos, as well(don't quote me on that). As you can see from the name of the gimmick, it does not use a pocket...

The hip clip has nothing to do with a tail steal. It is a gimmick that is exactly as the name implies.

I agree with wmhegbli. I've never seen anything in print about a tail steal. The positioning and operation is something you have to work out for yourself, just as you do the regular pockets and steals from the jacket.

Richard,
There is an old method of a tail steal going back more than fifty years. It is described in Tony Kardaro's book called "Dovetail Deceptions" , BTW, he was also known as Senior Torino. I believe the book still is in print and you can buy it from Denny and Lee Magic in Baltimore. The method would be considered crude by today's standards but works quite well. I used to use the method when I was a kid. I am now using it again. It does not require a dove pocket, but you will have to shorten the dove's tail feathers.
Channing Pollock began using tail steals more than fifty years ago. He, however, used a different method requiring a dove harness and dove pocket. His tail steals were impeccable. You can see him perform on a video called "European Nights." The video can be purchased through Stevens Magic Emporium in St. Louis.
I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Mike

The Andy Amyx vid has a good amount of material on tail steals.

Dovetail Deceptions is the 1st version of the 'hip clip' not tail steals.

Channing Pollack act there is not tail steals.

Do not confuse tail a 'profonde' with steals, this is used for vanishes more then steals.

Chen-Kai discribed his tail methods in a lecture in 1982 but it was never written down to my knowledge.

To use the tail steal you should use large silks as in 27" and 36" in size.

Channing Pollock did use a tail steal in his act my friend. He made one of the boldest dove steals I have ever seen using the tail steal, and it was not a profonde but an actual pocket and a harness with a loop.

DJ

Your best bet would be to see when you needed that dove production, see what effect you want to do before hand. try to make the natural dropping of the hand the last possition of the effect before the produciton. See if you will be putting soemthing on a table, perfect misdirection for the steal, doing something in the other hand or picking something up from the ground, then you will maybe know what steal you want and you could even create your own misdirectiomn for that steal!

Being that Channing has never tipped his methods or published his material. I really do not believe you can state for certain his methods. I discussed his act with his friend Neil Foster, and this was never a solution.

He did do the silk to cards using a tail steal. But no doves from the tail I know of. Can you site the point in his routine he did this?

Look into the Chavez Encyclopedia of Dove Magic for tail info. -Yeah when did Channing to a dove steal from his tails, I've like broken VCR's watching Channing and I don't remember any tail steal. That one from the top hat kicks butt! But I don't recall any tail steals.

sperris

Richard, let's see if we can answer your question before it gets buried in Channing Pollock reviews. With a tail steal, you will be producing the dove vertically rather than a normal horizontal steal so the distance from the edge of the tail to sew in the pocket is irrelevant. How far down the tail would depend on how you wanted to produce the bird. Ideally, if you dropped your arm straight down, the top of the pocket would be at palm level. That would let you hook the loop easily.

With the proper misdirection, you can easily use an 18" silk for cover. While I'm not a avid fan of Andy Amyx, he does show how to do this steal on his video, Doves 101.

Hi Sperris,
Could you tell me where in Channing's act does he do a dove steal from a top hat. Also on which video did you see it.

The following is what I thought I saw:

In the video "European Nights" he does a steal from the tails. This is his 7th and last dove production of his act. The tail steal is done standing sideways (his left side) to the audience and making the steal from this exposed side. It was a very bold steal, as D J Trix stated. Another steal, the 3rd dove production, appears to be stolen from the left hip. The 6th dove production, another tail steal ( his right side) was done when doing a card fan to white silk to dove, quite spectacular.

If any of you out there think I am mistaken please feel free to correct my perception of how Channing's steals were done. In my opinion, he was the greatest at what he did.

I'll have to go back and watch for the steal you're talking about. The steal from tophat is like his second one if I remember right. Where he produces one silk, puts it over his hand and pull up a little like section of the silk and makes it stand up. Then he looks to the audience, rolls back his sleeves and plucks another silk out from under the one covering his hand. He's done it on every tape I have of Channing from European Knights, on the Sullivan Show, on some special with Edgar Burgen and Charlie McArthy, one with Liberacie (sp?), and one where I'm not sure what tv show he was on. He's done it in all of them, its really quick and clever, check it out again and I'll go watch for the tail steal you're talking about.

sperris

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your reply, your words have pretty much confirmed what I thought and that is the tail steal uses a pocket set at a more vertical angle. I may check out Andy Amyx video but will probably just work on my misdirection and positioning of the pocket.

Cheers
Rich

Richard Moor,

As mentioned before Chen-Kai used a very long line from the tail to his waist level. This is a very effective steal. Check out His steals in Supreme's Encyclopedia of Dove Magic Vol. 4. This is the reason for the larger silk.

Magic Mike,

I don't want to argue, but I really do not think Channing does any tail steals at all in his act. I have not seen the act in sometime; but I studied it a lot years ago when I was into doves and I think your were fooled badly, which is what you should have been by the master.

Wmhegbli,
I realize that you are not attempting to argue with me.
Polite discussion is what this Forum is all about. This way we can learn from each other.

You are quite right, "The Master", Channing Pollock did fool me very badly, just as you said a master should. Upon viewing "European Nights" again I learned two things. First, the 3rd steal was from the top hat, just as Dan had said earlier and not from the hip. From the angle which it is filmed it difficult to see how the steal is done. My second error was thinking that the 6th steal was done from the right tail pocket. It was not, when Channing does the cards to silk to dove the steal is made from his lower right breast pocket in one flowing movement. Very slick!

However, you should view his act again, for his 7th and last dove production, watch his left hand holding the white silk drop by his side ( facing the audience ) when he is producing the last fan of cards from his right hand. I think you will agree that he is executing a very bold tail steal. It took a lot of guts, but then that is why he is "The Master."

Nice chatting with you.
Mike

I agree fully Magic Mike!!!

DJ

I learned it from Andy Amyx's "Doves 101" and highly recommend this video.

Chavez Encyclopedia of Dove Magic is your best bet. You may also try Tony Clark videos.

MDS

Jonathan David Bass did the Best tail steal aka invisible harness I have seen!

The worst I have seen is a professional doveworker who did a terrible tail steal from a silk after the silk fountain, one silk drop onto the floor, he did a pick up & steal it at straight angle, if he had turned a little to his right, then it would have been perfect.

Tony Clark also did a nice tail steal for his Jumbo Cards! Nice to watch

Hope this helps
doveboy