Hi people,


I've seen discussions on the Café comparing the effectiveness of the Jordan vs. the Elmsley counts, and of tricks that use the latter. What I haven't seen is discussions of favorite tricks that use Jordan. Maybe I missed it... But -- are there actually tricks that use the Jordan Count?? If so, I'd be interested in hearing about people's favorites -- especially ones that aren't too involved as I'm a beginner. Elmsley is next on my list of sleights to learn, and I know there's a practice routine that alternates the two counts, but it would be great to practice both and learn tricks that use both.


Thanks for your help.

Interesting question Bob, I'd like to hear the answer too. I've seen tricks that use both, to manoeuvre a card into different positions, but never one that uses just the Jordan. I hope someone more knowledgable comes along to reply!

One of my strongest impromptu card effects is from Darwin Ortiz' Cardshark. It requires a Jordan.

Ahahaha, I did it!!

I was able to refrain from providing the complete reference to magicfish's response.

Thanks @magicfish for providing the opportunity to (im)prove myself (grin).


Dave

I can't help you with a trick that uses Jordan counts and only Jordan counts but there is a trick described in one of the Roy Walton books as well as one of the Mentzer books credited to Walton which uses an Elmsley, a Jordan, and a Siva count (Jack Avis). The trick is called "As You Were," and if you practice it until the counts become indisinguishable, you will have a nice effect and you will know three useful counts.

Thanks folks. Tricks using Jordan along with other counts would be just fine. Magic fish, do you recall the name of Ortiz,s effect?


I like the idea, foolsnobody, of learning three effects by learning one nice trick.



Bob

Oops, I meant three counts.

What I wrote above is incorrect. The third count is the Elmsley-Jordan count, not the Siva count.

Great trick in Focus by Phil Goldstein that uses an Elmsley, Jordan and then a Siva....It's called Overture.

Michael Kociolek's "The Naturals" effect appears in the Feb. 2018 issue of Genii (see pp. 48-51). It uses a Jordan Count.

Thanks, Pepka. I have the book and have heard lots of good things about Overture.



And thanks to you, B. W., for the lead on "The Naturals."

Rafael Benatar's Illogical Conclusion uses a jordan count.
You can see an extract of the trick in this video : https://youtu.be/2tB8C-qod3A?t=40

Illogical Conclusion: The effect begins with four unseen cards face down on the table and four red cards in Rafael's hands. He openly switches a card, then two cards, and then three cards from one pile to the other, all while the cards in his hands remain completely red. The trick doesn't seem to make sense until he finally shows that the cards on the table are all black.

Lucas.

Bob sometimes depending on the effect a Jordon count is better and more natural than an Elmsley count for example in Duplicity an underground EC taught at the start/opening but personally I prefer to start with a JC as it's more natural in my opinion, I think the only reason the underground EC is taught is because most magicians are more familiar with the EC rather than the JC.

Interesting point, Warren. I like that people who can do several counts can be creative like this.


I have a question -- probably not answerable on this forum. But I wondered whether the duplicity uses a force. Amazing though the trick is, I try to avoid tricks that always force the same card, and therefore can't be shown more than once to the same people (friends and family).

It's hard to explain as it's sort of a yes and no answer but it's not an effect I would recommend you perform for the same group

Okay -- thanks.

Lucas,


I just watched a performance video of Illogical Conclusion. It's very pretty!


Bob

I use the Jordan count when I preform the biddle card trick.

Kieran

That's very interesting, Kieran. The Biddle trick is high on my list of tricks that I want to learn. If you care to divulge the role that the Jordan count plays in your handling of the tricks, perhaps in a PM, I'd be interested to hear what you do. No obligation, obviously!

Bob I just had to check, its the biddle count I do not a Jordan count. For some strange reason I always thought it was the Jordan count, sorry about that.

Kieran