Ah, okay, that makes sense, Kieran. Thanks for letting me know.

Bob

Kartenkunste- Ortiz

Thanks, magicfish.

Check out some of Aldo Colombini routines. His Italian Salad card trick is awesome.

Among the Discards by Simon Aronson uses a Jordan Count. It is also a Very good card trick.

Thanks, terillific and stickmondoo -- lots of riches out there! I'll check these out.

I have been doing card tricks for over thirty years, and I am not quite sure what the Jordan count is (embarrassed to say). Did a quick search in Hugard and Tarbell (paper, not digital) and found nothing. I have been doing Elmsley count for years, and I can do it both hands, forwards backwards. My guess is, I do the Jordan count, but I don’t associate the sleight I do with the name.

If someone can message me and just provide a couple of hints, it would be appreciated. I did check on the Internet but the I saw three or four different false counts described (I suspect incorrectly) as Jordan counts. Thanks

Hi Baronborelli, do you have the Card College series? Giobbi describes it there. Ian Kendall describes it in his Basic Training (lybrary.com), and I'm pretty sure Daryl does in his Encylopedia of Card Sleights. Giobbi has comprehensive indices in volumes 4 and 5, but I know he covers Jordan in either vol. 2 or vol. 3.


Welcome to the Café! I wish *I'd* been doing card tricks for thirty years! I've been working on magic for three years now, and am still a relative beginner. (My Elmsley count is coming along well, though.)


Bob

Another Rumor by Chad Long uses the Jordan (or Ghost) count.
I believe I learned the count from Counts Cuts Moves and Subtlety, by Jerry Mentzer, 1977. The instructions for the Jordan mentions that the completion of a Jordan leaves you set up for an Elmsley count (and vice-versa). I practiced by doing Elmsley-Jordan-Elmsley, etc.

Douglas

Some of Paul Gordons tricks use the jordan count. Look at his 4 killer packet tricks on his site and his books are packed full of them. Mind Boggler from Pauls book article 52 uses a bunch of jordan counts.

You might want to check out The Royal Acrobats in CC 2. That uses both an Elmsley and a Jordan. It's a great trick.

Thanks, Tyler, Douglas, and K. To the first two of you: for some reason I just got your posts.


Note to K: I'll definitely look that up. My Elmsley count has gotten a lot better, and I'll be putting up a second video for people to critique. I share your love of Giobbi, as you know.


Note to Douglas: Minor correction. I'm 99% sure that Elmsley called his count the "Ghost Count." I don't think the Jordan count is called that.


Bob

Many packet tricks use Jordan Counts. I just ran across a Cameron Francis trick from Moment's Notice 10 (Precursor) that uses it. Caleb Wiles' Travelers for Jack uses it. And David Regal's Red Streamlined Convertible, an Ace assembly with odd-backed aces, uses it quite a bit.

It's worth noting that the Jordan Count is something of an inverse of the Elmsley Count. That is, the cards that are hidden in an Elmsley Count end up at the back of the packet, in position for a Jordan Count. If you perform a Jordan Count immediately after an Elmsley, you will display the same "four" cards and end up back in position for another Elmsley Count. So you can keep switching between an Elmsley and a Jordan forever, hiding the same card(s) each time. A good way to practice both sleights. It has also saved me a time or two when, after doing an Elmsley, someone has said "wait, show me those cards again." Now what do you do? You do a Jordan Count. And then of course another Elmsley at some point and you're right back in position.

Mike,


I never thought of using the Jordan count if asked to show cards again. Clever. Here's a question: if you follow Elmsley by Jordan, are *all* the cards in the packet in the same order as they were originally?

Indeed they are, and I should have clarified that's what I meant by Jordan and Elmsley being inverses. All cards are back in their original order when performing the two counts back-to-back. Try it for yourself.

I will! And I'm very happy to hear it.

Magic Ronnay's "Sympathetic Cards" from Emerson & West is still one of my favorite packet tricks. Bought it in the 70's or early 80's. Uses EC and JC

Thanks, FlightRisk. Sounds like this might be out of print, but I'll see if I can find it. Would you mind described the effect briefly?


Bob

I found a description -- sounds like a fun trick, though perhaps above my level at the moment. No luck so far finding the marketed trick or a detailed set of instructions.

Sad when things disappear and it is hard to find them. I know funinc.com had the rights and was selling the bike version of the cards (the original was with bridge sized cards). The magic gadget site has "Royal Scam" by John Bannon that seems similar. I would love to find the cards myself. Making a deck without splitting and gluing cards might be expensive because you need several of he same suit Aces with all different backs.

I have an original that is still in good shape with the instructions and the cheat sheet card (quick notes on the setup and order of counts). It isn't knuckle busting at all, but to me is memory busting If you learn a JC and EC, which I think are relatively easy slights. A few weeks practice if you have a good teacher. I do both the "at the fingertips" style and the "normal dealing" style. The latter is a bit more difficult I think because you have more fingers involved and more of a coordination between hands to not flash. But once you learn this, I think it stays with you forever. However, the memorization of everything going on in that trick was a bit much for me when I was learning If you don't do it often, I would imagine you have to practice all over again. Not only do you keep doing counts in the correct order, but you have to remember to keep putting the last card on the bottom of the packet, not the top as you normally would in a JC. That's why I think doing it at the fingertips is easier for this trick.